City Payroll

[Barb Dunnam]

I am so mad right now I could scream!!!!!!

Something happened at City Hall with Payroll and so now instead of city employees being paid today as scheduled payroll will not be posted until Monday.

Yvonne did get the banks to waive NSF fees but you will not be able to use your ATM to access todays pay until Tuesday.

Our city employees already don't make much. Now they have to endure this?

[Barb Dunnam]

Sorry they don't get paid till Tuesday even though payday is today.

[Becky Davis]

Not good. They show up to work on time, they should be paid on time.

[bborum]

Things happen. Unfortunately it is the people who are living paycheck to paycheck who suffer the most when it does. No larger than the City staff is, why didn't they just hand cut the checks?

[Becky Davis]

Yeah, really..why not?

[Barb Dunnam]

All I know is that at almost 2:30 yesterday my folks at Parks Got a fax letting them know they would not be paid till Tuesday.

So it was then time to track down staff gone for the day or off and tell them they had not been paid.
Its a long weekend to boot.

My hubby is a city employee and they did not know at his office yet at 3:00 until I called and told them.

It is the responsibilty of an emplyer to pay on time.
Actually it is against the law to not do so.
I know that we don't have any independantly wealthy employees. I can't stand the position they have been put in over this long weekend.

As far as hand cutting checks. I agree they should have been cut and delivered. If you didnt send in the direct deposit then hand cut your employees pay.

I will be sending a formal written complaint to all council and the mayor. I cannot allow this to happen to my Parks staff again.

There has not been an explanation given. I have a feeling that we won't.
All I can say is its wrong.

[Jeff Jeans]

First, we read that the lowest bidder by $200,00 was escorted out of city hall by police ($100 per resident), then NSF charges at the bank, now the faithful city employees have this happen over a 3 day (possibly vacation) weekend. What's WRONG with this picture????????

[This message has been edited by Balloonhead (edited 01-15-2005).]

[Jeff Jeans]

Could have been a bank error, we've had those....Does anyone know? Maybe the bank is to blame.

[Barb Dunnam]

This effects all city employees and all banks which they have direct deposit to.

It is a long weekend. So no money till Tuesday afternoon if they are using atm or debit cards.

[sweetness&light]

Hmmmm, has Lucinda been taking lessons from Madam Theresa in forecasting the future? She has mentioned about the city being bankrupted from time to time. Is this the time? I don't know how the city does their financial things, but don't they deposit all their monies into the bank? Is that why the bank will not charge NSF fees? Apparently, someone in charge of payroll didn't get the numbers to the bank, which just makes one wonder....didn't that employee want/need to get paid?

Oooh, I betcha head(s) will roll Monday (does the city get MLK day off? the county doesn't) or Tuesday and it doesn't take Madam Theresa to see this in the future. You can screw around with ordinances, CUPS, plates and saucers, but the buck stops as soon as the employees don't receive theirs in the agreed to timely manner.

This is one problem chocolate consumption will not make better.

[bborum]

Does this have anything to do with the transfer of funds to other banks? Perhaps the other banks are not as understanding as Bank of ES and therefore not willing to CYA for the city as the Crosses were. Or B of ES is not so willing to extend courtesies as they were. With all that high interest the funds yielded, there should be money to cover payroll.

[becsflowers]

Madame Theresa is clutching her skirts, 20 bucks AND her live chicken with all her mite!!!!
The masses are TIRED, HUNGRY, and PO'.....

RUN, Madame Theresa, RUN!
"...They are hungry...."

[ComeAgain???]

First rule of good management....take care of your employees!

First rule of bad management....screw the employees!

So the people who are "begging Kathy to run for a second term" are being rewarded????Besides, when you go with the highest bidder you do have to save money wherever you can.

[ilovemyreka]

so has anyone determined what actually happened to cause this problem...or is everyone, still...just guessin...?

[Jane]

Are you guys saying that the city did not make payroll today?

This is a pretty big deal.

Rather than speculating on how this happened, can someone get some real answers?

Eureka is small enough that I would think there would be a way to find out.

Anyone have any suggestions or answers?

I really feel for the employees of this city.....This is just not right.

[Barb Dunnam]

I have the fax that went out on Friday.
Until city offices open I dont know how we could get any other definitve answers.
In the meantime there is no way for payroll to be made at this point until Tuesday. Monday is a holiday.

The fax I received did not give a reason, just that people would not be paid until Tuesday.

I won't speculate. I will however say it is wrong.
Whoever caused the problem needs to stand up and take responsibility for it.

If a business or (city) can not pay its people on time, then it is time to look into its financial processes a bit deeper.
It does not matter if it was because there was or was not the funds available. What matters is it was allowed to happen and the policies and procedures were not in place to prevent such a thing from occuring.

Its bad. Just bad.

[Glenn Strange]

Barb Dunnam,

You or others might find the penalties for any of the three legal terms listed below interesting, as listed in the Arkansas Code.

****************************

MALFEASANCE - The unjust performance of some act which the party had no right, or which he had contracted not to do. It differs from misfeasance, and nonfeasance.

MISFEASANCE - The performance of an act, which might lawfully be done, in an improper manner, by which another person receives an injury. It differs from malfeasance, or, nonfeasance.

It seems to be settled that there is a distinction between misfeasance and nonfeasance in the case of mandates. In cases of nonfeasance, the mandatory is not generally liable, because his undertaking being gratuitous, there is no consideration to support it; but in cases of misfeasance, the common law gives a remedy for the injury done, and to the extent of that injury.

NONFEASANCE - Failure to perform, or complete neglect of, a required legal or contractual duty. The term is found in public officials' professional liability policies.

************************

It seems to me that missing a payday, involving earned wages, by an Arkansas Municipality would fall under one of the three legal terms defined above, in Arkansas Code!

Glenn Strange

"If you like what you have been getting, keep doing what you have been doing."


P.S. Time for more jokes now, I am sure!

Glenn

[Barb Dunnam]

I believe your right Glenn.

I also believe any city employee having the guts to file a suit would find themselves relieved in a heartbeat and escorted out of their place of work by Chief Earl.

I believe like most things that happen in this town.

We will never know the truth and no one will be truly held accountable for it.

Whoever at the city is responible for this should likely lose their job or at least be suspended without pay for an extended period of time.

I dont mean someone who forgot to do something either. I mean the person who is ultimately repsonsible for that persons work. Supervisor etc.

The employee also needs to be penalized but it is surely not a sole employees job to do this without oversight.

We dont have a finance director so who is watching the finances?

[OvertheRiver]

Well, if it makes anybody feel better, the Memphis mayor and the former finance director announced in early 2004 that the city was in good financial shape. However, just after the November elections, the mayor announced that the city was $30,000,000. (yep, that's millions) in the hole. In the meantime, the mayor has hired the finance director (who "lost all that money) to run the city-owned utility company - I think it amounted to a $60,000 RAISE for the guy. The mayor has granted raises of between $17,000 and $30,000 (that's amount of the raise, not the base salary) to certain favored city employees, and is threatening to quit funding the city school system entirely. The Memphis bond rating has also been lowered.

Moral: things could be worse.....

[Jhawkr]

I read this thread yesterday, became so upset over it, I decided I needed to calm down. Read it again today and got real upset again!

It's not like a huge metropolitan area there, ya'll know where the mayor, clerk and every counselperson lives! So the concensus (on this BB anyway)is to wait until normal business hours to be told whatever it is this administration wants you to believe. Unbelieveable!

Expressed here on this BB is the fear of what the municipal police might do to anyone who questions the City's action not to pay the employees. Unbelieveable!

Risking an attack on this board, my weighing in on this topic, hopefully, will give a little different perspective on this event and how, ya'll, as citizens, are reacting.

I have visited ES so many times, stayed in your inns and hotels, shopped at your businesses, and ate in your restaurants. Ya'll are a good bunch of people. The City employees are your neighbors, they keep that town liveable. They deserve better.

The revenues you pay the City for utilities alone is sufficient to make payroll. Where is this steady stream of money going?

I was in municipal service, not in ES, for many years. Every other Friday, sometime between nine am and noon, paychecks were delivered. In twenty-seven years of municipal employment, I can recall only one instance of the paychecks not being there Friday morning. We were directed, in writing, to have the 300+ city employees go to a particular bank when they finished their work for the day. There at the bank was the city manager and the mayor. The bank kept the lobby open late that Friday for city employees and opened at seven am on Saturday morning to take care of the night shift crews. Everybody got paid, signing a voucher in lieu of a check.

City employees got an apology from the city manager and the mayor. There was no BS, no excuses, no finger pointing, no laying of blame on anyone else.

What also concerns me, as I watch the politics and civil administration in your town is this; is this no-pay situation a diversion to distract from an even bigger "irregularity" being committed by your municipal government?

No excuse is big enough, or situation so dire, that working people, city employees, should have their pay withheld. Why wait to be fed a line of bull over this by the City Admin?

It's probably a good thing I'm iced in here, if I were able to get to ES, I'd probably be enjoying the hospitality of Earl's B & B!

[b lake lady]

I don't live in town but keep up with all the "shennanigans" by reading here. This one tops everything. Only once in my 20 yrs running a business could I not give people their checks on time. The coorporate office changed pay dates and I didn't get the memo. I called everyone together and explained the situation, then wrote checks on my petty cash account to everyone who absolutely had to have some money that day and to tide them over for the 3 days til I'd have their checks. Didn't "ask" the CEO just did it.All the city employees need to refuse to work til they get their money and also report this to......who???????? the Govenor, the Labor Department.....I don't know.Heads should roll.

[becauseican]

There is NO-ONE and I mean NO-ONE down at City Hall managing the money except, Kathy,
MJ and Brenda Spencer...
Does the Word Finance Director come to anybody mind!!!!!!!!
If Kathy can not pay her Bills on time, how
or why would she the Cities?
And by the way now you have a Public works
director who filed for Bank ruptcy running a
Department.
Maybe one day someday people will actually realize we were not just crying the "sky is falling".
My bet is Kathy will blame this on someone else and that she will have a pocket full of excuses in reality, they have a payroll account and they get paid every two weeks.
PEOPLE there is No excuse.

[Jane]

I'm just curious....

Any updates on this situation?

JHawkr....
Let me respond to your comment....

"It's probably a good thing I'm iced in here, if I were able to get to ES, I'd probably be enjoying the hospitality of Earl's B & B!"

I was wondering if Earl's B & B was still operating..????? $$$$$$$ ??? $$$$ ?? $$ ?

[Barb Dunnam]

The Police are still on patrol,Public Works was out
today doing normal weekend stuff.
Its business as usual for city employees.

Like I said, nobody that works for the city would complain or make a stink. They would be out a job if they did.

I really dont think any of our city council persons know about this right now. I can't imagine any of our new folks would be ok with this situation.

I would email them all but I dont have the new address list. I will look on the city website and see if it has been updated yet.


Barb

[Jane]

Barb....

Just for reference here is the city's website...I'm sure you have it.


http://www.cityofeurekasprings.org/


Go to CITY COUNCIL on left-hand list..
then to ALDERPERSONS...

Just recently updated the list for the new council people...complete with e-mail addresses.

[Barb Dunnam]

Thanks Dear.

I went and got the list. I'm glad they updated it. Actually thats pretty quick. Hats off to our City Hall Web folks.

We shall see what happens on Tuesday. In the meantime life goes on........./

Happy Sunday Everyone!

[MotherMoon12]

Back in the 70's Chris taught at the federal prison in Fort Worth. We had 3 small children. On 3 separate occasions, the federal government couldn't pay their employees. The last time that happened, we went without money for 3 weeks. He found another job soon after that. There is no valid reason to not pay your people. This is the worst thing, in a long line of bad things, Eureka has done. I have no involvement in Eureka, but this makes me very angry. We have always lived paycheck to paycheck and it is never easy. Missing a check can be devastating.

[Lucinda]

Okay, I'm going to try to keep this from being a novelette...but you know me.

First – aldermen read these boards. By now, many must know about this missed payroll the same way we do – through postings.

Second – any person who has ever issued payroll IS NEVER LATE on the pay date, UNLESS the company/municipality is in a serious cash flow situation or in serious financial trouble…..for ALL the reasons outlined in this thread.

If this is just about ‘somebody’ wanting a long weekend without the ‘time’ to issue payroll they should be horsewhipped.

I’m going to quote my sister here because she is an elected county clerk for a large metropolitan area in Oklahoma with 26 years in various counties (and is on her 8th elected county term with the same county.

She is an ‘expert’ on county government and municipal law and practices. Those people running our city hall ARE NOT. She does point out that some Arkansas and Oklahoma laws have differences.

And she’s been keeping up with our various ‘situations’ because she finds most of them either outrageous or amusing. She was visiting me this weekend.

1). She is shocked to hear the payroll date was missed. Her department issues payroll electronically. She said if her 'system' were down, she would have her entire staff working overtime to manually write checks, guaranteeing timely pay for employees who often live from check to check and may of whom have auto pay for their personal bills.

In her words this is inexcusable or worse, an indication that the city is short on funds..…because no one misses government employee pay dates.

2) She feels a Grand Jury investigation is called for in this town, because it seems so poorly run, screwy, and given answers for the latest “foul-ups” she feels are simply transparent (uh) fictions…… where a mayor (with no financial or legal background in day-to-day municipal operations) has assumed complete administrative and fiscal authority……where city councilmen abdicate their elected responsibilies….. when financial reports are late…..payroll missed….and the mayor is building a sewer plant on her own perceived authority…

AND she couldn’t believe the sewer contract was awarded with a $200,000 difference to the highest bidder. QUOTE: “that is not city money they are so generous with – it is the CITIZENS money.”

She says “call for a Grand Jury investigation before the city is in crisis”…… waiting until it slaps un in the face will be too late. An investigation is a matter of X number of signatures on a petition.

I asked her what would be a valid reason for a Grand Jury investigation and she said the lack of public, publicized financial reports since May 2003 and the necessity of calling in the municipal league to ‘organize’ the finances alone would be grounds for an investigation. She also feels the mayor should be challenged, for assuming so much authority my sister doubts she really has by law.

3) She says the Mayor’s explanation for calling the municipal league was in to ‘organize’ the city books and financials (using the excuse that it will cost the city ‘less money’) is nothing short of a whopper. She says we likely won’t know about the ‘costs’ of this ‘help’ until the bill comes in.

AND she’s doubtful ANY municipal league provides “out-servicing” for city monthly or quarterly financials. In her opinion, and in knowing exactly why municipal leagues exist (to defend elected officials and municipalities from legal issues), she feels the league stepped in only because the financials are in such poor order, and so late, the league is simply ‘aiding’ the city to later avoid defending us in a legal matter created by bad or illegal bookkeeping.

4) She cannot believe the city financial report has not been made public since May of last year. Even as an elected official, she says she would be removed from office – and even though Arkansas has no recall provision – she feels the elected person responsible for the financial department (MAYOR) should have her legal duties reduced (by the COUNCIL). The mayor should be limited only to administrative duties as outlined by state law, and public PR.

5) Knowing the city had a recent state audit, she points out we may not hear the meat of the audit for a few months and it will take an FOIA to determine if the city ‘fabricates’ a public statement regarding the results of the audit.

6) It will only take one city employee to call the Ark Labor Department to report the missed payroll, to find if any ALD laws have been violated. The employee will not be identified to the city....particularly if that employee reminds the labor department they work at the pleasure of the mayor WHO is directly in charge of payroll because she's fired everyone else with that fiscal and bookkeeping responsibility.

Bottom line – I don’t have a crystal ball or need to consult “mother Theresa” to predict any of this. WE have NOT been TOLD the state of the city finances, the amount of reserves spent OR the costs for the sewer plant. Secrecy makes me suspect the worse.

[bborum]

I would hope by now that AT Least two of the coucilpersons will be making the calls to get this on the agenda for the next meeting. "Inquiring minds want to know"

[bborum]

Don't I remember hearing something being said at the council meeting about it being the City Clerk's responsibility and obligation to notify the council IMMEDIATELY of something not being done properly. This was known early enough they could have been contacted. Were they? and if not, why not?

[Two 6 Pac]

Just call her and ask her. I did.

All I know is what I was told. I was concerned over a friends concern regarding a check they had written. So to help relieve that persons anxiety I called the Mayor at home and ask her.

Stupid inexcusable mistake, but I don’t think it’s anything to make a conspiracy out of. Keep in mind I’m going on what I was told, but it seems plausible.

I don’t think everything warrants an investigation, maybe some things, but not everything.



[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 01-17-2005).]

[becsflowers]

“mother Theresa”

It's MADAME Theresa. NOT Mother Theresa.
BIG difference. Mother Theresa was a saint.
Madame Theresa takes your 20 bucks, live chicken, and runs for the hills. (She's not real kosher with the church, if ya knowhatimean....

LOL!!! Get it RIGHT, darling li'l unofficially appointed government anarchist,you!

And Two6Pac? What exactly DID you ask the Chief Cheese? And what exactly WAS the answer?

"....And will we find out before Friday; before Erica switches 'evil' thongs with Bianca? Before Adam can cave in to Opal's secret hypnotic lucid dreams? Stay tuned, folks; don't touch that dial!"

[Two 6 Pac]

I ask her about the payroll check deal and just what exactly was going on, or had happened. I told her I was concerned for a friend of mine and I would like an answer. I went on to tell her that people were concerned all kinds of things were being said.

It was an employee mistake, the person I relayed that to knows how best to explain it I think. I'm not about to mention names, but it was just a human error. Wrong buttons due to the holidays or something, everything direct deposit is cool, all the banks were called. Debit cards funked up due to it till Tuesday and actual paper pay checks. Hey, it was a big slip-up, tried to handle and recover the best she could.
But it wasn't anything other than just a human f**k up!



[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 01-17-2005).]

[becsflowers]

" a human mistake"

Ooooooohhhhhhh....like.....'somebody' thought it was Tuesday the 11th when IN REALITY it was Thursday the 14th?

HELL People! Our savior is here! Jus' as' him!

LOL!!!!(just jokin' 6ie..)
And ANOTHER thing. To dispell any RUMOR, which 'head cheese' you talking ABOUT?
(YUCK. Head Cheese. Nasty stuff.)

[This message has been edited by becsflowers (edited 01-17-2005).]

[Two 6 Pac]

At least I'm not trying to set the entire ****ing town on fire because of it!

which one?

And where the hell are all your damn brass balled council people, this town I swear!

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 01-17-2005).]

[Lucinda]

2 6 - that was very good of you to call for your friend. I'm sure you got a version of the truth.....but "someone else did it" is a worn out phrase around city hall.

And, I'd sure like to see those quarterly financials, printed for the public.

And I'd like to know the reason the city clerk is not giving these financial reports at council meetings...as required by law.

And I'd like to know why the municipal league was called in. (no BS answers that make no sense.)

And I'd like to hear the results of the state audit.

And I'd like to know how much is left in the city reserves.

And it would be nice to hear JUST WHY these sewer bids were so far apart and how anyone can justify a 200K difference between the three. (Remember the bank situation where one bank was given different spec's than the other?)

It would be nice to know these 'tiny details' before the town actually does catch on fire.

There is only one place the buck stops.

-----------

BECS http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif it's Mother Theresa to you girl http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 01-17-2005).]

[Two 6 Pac]

And I'd like to know why you're doing this to yourself?

[gump]

I'd like to know how a payroll due out on Friday the 14th is affected by a holiday on the 17th?

[ComeAgain???]

I think that the real "human mistake" was made by the people who voted for Harrison in the election!

And since Harrison is in charge of everythng (the law according to weaver)it was HER mistake that the checks were not issued, not a clerk, not a computer, but Harrison. Any other claim is just another example of using the secondary product from feed-lots to "feed" us mushrooms.

[ilovemyreka]

there goes 6pac again, deleting his posts...when he seems to be the only one willing to apply any logic or sound reasoning to any of this.

sure, it sucks when a payroll isn't met. it sucks in a big way...and causes all kinds of horrific problems for people that don't deserve it.

it just seems so bizarre to me that everyone is SO anxious to make it part of a great conspiracy and blame this person or that person and make grand jury noises...before anyone knows what REALLY happened! and given that mindset, i bet it's highly improbable that there could be a valid reason that anyone would be willing to accept.

looks like everyone's just eager for a lynchin'...

[Lucinda]

Reka - I think it is very clear....what happens here has MUCH more to do with missing a payroll date.

With all due respect (and I mean that) it is difficult to get a sense of how this gov operates (or doesn't)by just following this BBS. What you read without being or living here, are reactions to MUCH more than what is discussed online.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is not a fully informed opinion.

[Kim Yonkee]

Does this have anything to do with it?

Outsourcing many of the city’s financial operations is another of the mayor’s positive accomplishments, she believes. For $300 a month, the Arkansas Municipal League now organizes and reconciles all the city’s general ledgers and keeps the accounts in a format that “makes audits straightforward and simple.” Harrison said in-house bookkeeping was made extremely complex, with 36 open bank accounts when all that is needed are five.

An AML bookkeeper has been spending the past few weeks setting up the new system and now has all accounts current through November. “She did more in two weeks than the previous bookkeeper did in four months,” Harrison said. We’re finding a lot of errors, they’re straightened out now.”

Harrison said the AML financial program is a relatively new service that is currently being used by nine other cities in the state. “It’s so easy, it makes so much sense.” It also saves the city considerably on payroll. <font size=-2>Citizen, 12/29/04</font>

[gump]

Gee whiz, it wasn't MLK Day that was the problem, in the last pay period it would have been New Year's Day. Okay, I can understand that wrong buttons were pushed for that holiday, and then there was that whole end-of-the-year issue to be resolved in that same payroll...it was all probably very challenging, but how come direct paycheck deposits are OK but the employees getting actual paychecks aren't?

[becsflowers]

" how come direct paycheck deposits are OK but the employees getting actual paychecks aren't? "

COMMUNISM, THAT'S WHAT.

Sometimes its an insult what you get paid; then everybody in a bank someplace gets to know what you get paid too. That is crap.
I liked the "good ol'days" when I actually GOT to hold my teensy tiny little check for 5 minutes before *POOF* it was gone....
I think its a "control" issue, and since this IS MLK Day, I think its just how they treat "nigras like us" down here.
And it *could* be a 666 thing. You know, mark of the beast?
Lotsa suppose-ns here. I like the *negra* conspiracy the best though. (my likeness pictured above in my icon choice) Feel like it more and more everyday.

[White Bread]

Mebbee the check printer ran out of ink? But those that lead this train will prolly choose to keep quiet anyway and maintain their place on the long list of evildoers.

[Kim Yonkee]

Right. The check printer ran out of ink. Then it ran out of paper. Then the Tree Ordinance prevented the City from making any more paper. And then every single official with check-signing authority was simultaneously crippled in a tragic piano tuning incident. The lid on that baby grand just slammed right down on their check-writing hands ... so now they're all in casts up to the shoulders. In traction.

But they tried to write the checks, from their hospital beds, because they knew that the City Employees of Eureka would be counting on them. They had flocks of highly trained orderlies holding the checkbook up where they could reach it with their piano-tuning-mangled hands ... except, JUST! at the very moment when they were struggling to scratch out an "X for signature," which was all they could manage ... because of the great pain of their piano-tuning injuries and all... a DOG ran through the ICU and ATE their HOMEWORK! Naturally, they had to suspend all check-writing operations so they could hunt down the owner of the paycheck-eating mongrel and fine him for Dog at Large. I think everybody can understand that.

You see? ilovemyreka is correct. There is a totally logical explanation.

Did anyone think to rough up Madame Teresa and get that $20 and live chicken she keeps bragging about?

[becsflowers]

Madame Theresa left me a note before she runned off with 6 pacs brother. It said:

"Dear Mizzy Becsflowers,
I'ze SO sorry to bolt on y'all, but the 20 bucks wuz my only chance to get outta Dodge with my live chicken. Too many hungry and po' people in Eurekey to hang around downtown with 20 bucks AND a live chicken. I'll be back when the weather gets warmer and the city folk get paid. 20 bucks ain't what it use to be, and with Jimmy Baker opening up his retreat in Blue Eye, I think I'll have to take my crystal balls over there and see if I can get me one of them "honest" kind of jobs...you know, the kind that gives me my own table complete with seance cloth and a permanant sign out front. Jimmy says he's only gonna need 60% of my proceeds, (wink, wink) and the rest will be automatically deposited fo' me in his bank in Blue Eye. That's IF'N I cooperate *FULLY* with him and agree to throw out any possible sexual harrassment suits. (more wink, wink)
I look forward to returning when the weather warms and working the parking lots downtown for quarters. People thare expect all this FREE advice and totally IGNORE the "20 bucks and a live chicken". Best I ever did in Eurekie was 5 bucks and a bag of Tyson frozen nuggets. (I didn't know Mike was in town... http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/eek.gif ) Tsk tsk. I leave you for now, as I have to flat get outta town 'fer the sun rises. I'm leaving with Two6Pac's brother, HalfCan.
(Half of him WON'T, but we ain't goin' thare.) Tell Lucinda Thanks for thinkin' of me like MOTHER Theresa. We probably had a lot in common at one time...(Me and Mother Theresa, not me & Lucinda...well, MAYBE Lucinda....)
Oh well, jus' git on with it gurl and don' go gittin' too "nigra" on us. Jerry Springer couldn't handle it.
Love you to nuggetts,
Madame Theresa "

[becsflowers]

And like a bad hair cut, she slipped out of town....

[jf501]

Bec's, I think I've got her psychic hotline # around here somewhere (she transferees her calls to her cell phone when vacationing).

She came to me in a dream last night and I think she’s taking some R & R down in New Orleans. Seems like I remember smelling fried chicken………

[Two 6 Pac]

har har x's 2

I'm not at all shocked with you Becs, but mom? What gives? Don't luv m no more?

[Becky Davis]

Madam Theresa, Now what in the world are you doing with twenty bucks? Take turns riding them?

[redneck]

Just catching up on gf sounds like a major malfunction of city admin. Hopefully all those living from paycheck to paycheck employees got there monies today. Just a long line of making excuses and finger pointing. To bad the employees or other people with good intentions pay for such failings. Have a Good day

[becauseican]

Kathy says!
Oh my god I can't beleive that anyone would belive anything that Kathy Says.
Here is A Quote from Muncipal league....
You have No checks and balances.....
ONCE again you have three people in charge of city finances and only three....Kathy,
Brenda, and the trust worthy MJ.

[Ronald Phelps]

Originally posted by Kim:
Right. The check printer ran out of ink. Then it ran out of paper. Then the Tree Ordinance prevented the City from making any more paper. And then every single official with check-signing authority was simultaneously crippled in a tragic piano tuning incident. The lid on that baby grand just slammed right down on their check-writing hands ... so now they're all in casts up to the shoulders. In traction.

But they tried to write the checks, from their hospital beds, because they knew that the City Employees of Eureka would be counting on them. They had flocks of highly trained orderlies holding the checkbook up where they could reach it with their piano-tuning-mangled hands ... except, JUST! at the very moment when they were struggling to scratch out an "X for signature," which was all they could manage ... because of the great pain of their piano-tuning injuries and all... a DOG ran through the ICU and ATE their HOMEWORK! Naturally, they had to suspend all check-writing operations so they could hunt down the owner of the paycheck-eating mongrel and fine him for Dog at Large. I think everybody can understand that.

You see? ilovemyreka is correct. There is a totally logical explanation.

Did anyone think to rough up Madame Teresa and get that $20 and live chicken she keeps bragging about?

Sorry Kim, no tree ordiance. That is another one that was "misplaced"

[ilovemyreka]

hmmm...tuesday has come on gone...and not a word uttered here about what was determined to be the problem!

please...please...inquiring minds want to know...

[Lucinda]

Yes, Tueday crept in quietly. Many expected to find the answer in yesterday's issue of the Times-Echo, but, surprise, surprise, no mention of the fact at all. We did get a headline for the Clerk, however. Would have thought that as fulltime city clerk AND editor of the paper the clerk would find the fact newsworthy.

[ilovemyreka]

i never thought about it being in the paper, but i guess it IS a bit surprising that there was no mention of it, altho i wouldn't see THAT absence as another piece of the conspiracy puzzle. i just assumed that as much stir as it has caused on this board, some clear-thinking rational person would attempt to find out some REAL answers.

[becsflowers]

"some clear-thinking rational person would attempt to find out some REAL answers."

Rational people don't waste their TIME doing that.

[sweetness&light]

I've been watching this for 3 pages, 56 posts and am rather surprised that only ONE city employee has made any comments and that employee is the one who started the thread. We know other employees read and post here, but nothing about lack of paychecks. I would have thought at least one or two would have chimed in about being unpaid.

However, that brings up another question: aren't all city employees paid by direct deposit to the bank of their choice? Wasn't this a mandate of a year or two ago to help keep costs down? Soooo, since the city hopefully isn't keeping all of its cash in a coffee can under a rosebush and it is in the bank, wouldn't the employees be able to cash a check or sign a chit for cash over the weekend?

It just seems so strange that no one else would be posting when it affects their pocketbook. OR...has the blase' attitude to national government actions filtered on down to the pocketbook? Now that's a scary thought and makes about as much sense as me quietly sitting by while someone raids my chocolate bunkers.

[OvertheRiver]

So, did everybody get paid yesterday? This is a yes or no question.

[Barb Dunnam]

I'm not a city employee.

Yes everyone got paid yesterday.

[OvertheRiver]

Thanks, Barb!

[Barb Dunnam]

Any time

[gayle]

Originally posted by ilovemyreka:
i never thought about it being in the paper, but i guess it IS a bit surprising that there was no mention of it, altho i wouldn't see THAT absence as another piece of the conspiracy puzzle. i just assumed that as much stir as it has caused on this board, some clear-thinking rational person would attempt to find out some REAL answers.

Fact is "reka" most of the folks that post about problems with the city aren't looking for "real" answers, or "real" solutions....they are just concerned with spreading "unreal" dirt. It gives their lives some sort of meaning when they can get on geekfest and slander someone, or spread inuendo. I say...have fun folks. Whatever floats your boat and makes life in Eureka meaningful for you! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Barb Dunnam]

Sorry Gayle,

I don't know you. However what I posted was the truth.
I wasnt looking to spread unreal dirt.

[gayle]

Originally posted by Barb Dunnam:
Sorry Gayle,

I don't know you. However what I posted was the truth.
I wasnt looking to spread unreal dirt.

I'm sorry too Barb.....my post wasn't directed at you!!!!! I think most people know who I was refering to....please accept my apology.

[becsflowers]

silly double post.... http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by becsflowers (edited 01-19-2005).]

[becsflowers]

YEAH. IT WAS *ME*, WASN'T IT?!?


LOL, just kidin'....
******************************8
"Whatever floats your boat and makes life in Eureka meaningful for you!"

THIS should be on bumper stickers.

[becsflowers]

"Yeah it was you and you damn $20.00 chicken.
Where' my little brother, I need him to wash the beemer! "


LOL!!!! The " flaming city employee mob" got close to catching Madame Theresa, so she flung the chicken at them, hoping instead of "cooking her goose", they'd "fry the chicken" instead. (Ended up they had to make soup to feed everybody.)
Your BROTHER, HalfCan, turned out, it was the right half that COULD, and he's been holed up with Madame Theresa ever since. Her telepathic communication with me was brief, and all I could really get out of it was a bunch of moaning and groaning, and something about him being worth every bit of the 20 bucks...
and oh yeah, she said,"Don' look for your brother to come wash your Beemer"...he's polishing her crystal balls.

[Lucinda]

Originally posted by gayle:
Fact is "reka" most of the folks that post about problems with the city aren't looking for "real" answers, or "real" solutions....they are just concerned with spreading "unreal" dirt. It gives their lives some sort of meaning when they can get on geekfest and slander someone, or spread inuendo. I say...have fun folks. Whatever floats your boat and makes life in Eureka meaningful for you! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif




When the city misses it's payroll date - that IS news, regardless of the reasoning behind the foul up.

WHY HAS THE CLERK FAILED TO REPORT THE CITY FINANCES AT THE COUNCIL TABLE AS REQUIRED BY LAW?

It's a simple question that has yet to be answered.

[gayle]

So...why don't YOU ask the clerk? Seems a simple enough manner to get your questions answered.

[redneck]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but that question has been asked over and over. So does this mean its been answered or not answered.xcuseeeeeeeeeeee meeeeeeeeeeee.

[Lucinda]

Because Gayle, I don't trust a thing that comes out of MJ's reporting or her MOUTH.

But, I just love this town.

MJ decides not to report, for whatever reason .... yet Bill King quotes Geekfest, "despite rampant rumors, flying around town...it was just a computer error, and after all, the mayor was out of town anyway.

My favorite line in tonight's Citizen is the opening of King's editorial "If you repeat something often enough, no matter how patently false,it will eventually become the truth."

Ya'll are a scream.

The only thing I've read this week of quality was respect for King Gladden and Mary Pat as the Citizen of the week. The rest is pure BS.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 01-19-2005).]

[Barb Dunnam]

All I'm going to say is great spin. Computers dont choose things on their own. People make the choices.
The program should have given confirmation.
Did it?

I'm done with the dead horse. Thats what this subject has become. The truth,although out there will never be allowed to be known.

Truth is the most powerful thing. Without truth you have no freedom.

[Two 6 Pac]

I had a dead horse once. I loved it, brushed it, talked to it, but it never moved.

It was dead!

[Lucinda]

I'll quote my sister again:

"Before city or county employees go a full weekend without pay, my staff would work until midnight to manually write the checks."

Put that in your pipes Bill and MJ and smoke it.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 01-20-2005).]

[Two 6 Pac]

They were out of town

[Lucinda]

THey are full of ****.

[Two 6 Pac]

Lookie, if your not here to do it, what do you do?

You get on the phone and do the best you can do!

[Lucinda]

You get on the phone and give your best, give a **** excuse. And then you ask your publicity agent(s) to print your excuse. But it is still a "give a **** piss poor excuse".

Mayor Mommie Dearest only cares about her own pitiful paycheck...and EVERY DEPARTEMENT HEAD is BEGGING her to extend to a 2nd term. Ya, right!

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 01-19-2005).]

[Two 6 Pac]

And just who is that AGENT?

Oh your changing during mid sentence are ya!

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 01-19-2005).]

[Lucinda]

Don't bait me.

[Two 6 Pac]

God dammit I’m not going to argue with you! Do you want me to come over there right this minute. By God I will don’t push me , you, you ,woman, you!

I’m nobody’s damn AGENT!

[Kim Yonkee]

OK. I admit it. I have a Conflict of Interest and a Hidden Agenda. <font size=-2>(If I can find a way to have Sour Grapes so I can fulfill every requirement of the Eureka Trifecta, I'll do that too.)</font>

But I'll admit it: MJ is a friend of mine.

That said ...

Didn't the City Clerk/Treasurer stop being the Treasurer when the job description and pay was reduced? I have this vague recollection that the financial matters of the City had to be handled "in-house," which was part of the rationale for cutting back on the responsibilities and pay of the elected City Clerk. Is that my imagination?

If this is what happened, it seems like MJ wouldn't be beat-able right now. We can all beat the bejeebers out of MJ when she resumes the original duties of City Clerk/Treasurer in about a month.

Until then, if it will make ya'll feel any better, I can promise that I will whip her in private. Will that help?

http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Two 6 Pac]

Stay out of this!

[bborum]

I wouldn't be too concerned about the dept heads. Based on the history, chances are they will all be different by the time the term is up.

[Lucinda]

Kim, with all due respect, MJ has been the city clerk for 2+ years. BY LAW, regardless of anyone's piss poor excuses, regardless of if she if part time or full time, she is required to give the financial report for the city - at the council table.

I'm not blaming MJ....she cannot report what she DOES NOT have! My question is WHY.

[Two 6 Pac]

I like MJ, nothing wrong with her, she's taken alot of crap around here and kept going!

[OvertheRiver]

Geez, everything is NOT a conspiracy!

[Two 6 Pac]

LC
Do you have a simple black dress with a simple pair of black pumps?

[Lucinda]

OTR, I'm not saying it is a conspiracy - I'm saying it is total bull**** that no one, i suspect including council, has a CLUE as to the city financials. Produce them and then MAYBE I'll shut up.

[Lucinda]

Two Six - yes, SEVERAL OF BOTH

[Two 6 Pac]

Dammit, it's not a ****ing damn conspiracy, what the hell is wrong with you people? It was a simple freaken mistake, that's all!

You make me so...........

[Lucinda]

Screw this.

[Two 6 Pac]

Dancing?

[Two 6 Pac]

Well ****!

[Kim Yonkee]

Originally posted by Two 6 Pac:
Lookie, if your not here to do it, what do you do?

You get on the phone and do the best you can do!

Son, let me tell you a bedtime story. Cuddle up ...

This saga is making me have flashbacks. Once upon a time, I was the CFO of a construction company. The operations were in the US; the financing came from Canada. On one particular payday, the Canadian partners had a computer glitch of their own and the $300,000 weekly payroll didn't get deposited ... which meant that we had serious riot-potential from about 400 outraged framers, sheet-rockers & electricians.

I, the construction manager, all of our office staff, and several members of local law enforcement cleaned out the vaults of the local banks to gather sufficient cash. Then we cleaned out the beer supply of every local liquor store to keep the natives in check ... while we hand-paid every friggin' one of them under a couple of bare bulbs in a partially completed office building.

More recently, we've been out of the state ... or the country ... and we've had to fax temporary check-signing authorization to somebody so that bills, including paychecks, could be paid.

If glitches happen, it's a hideous thing to deal with them. But, where there's a will ...

It's not like any "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" matter at this point. If I were in charge (which, of course, I'm not), my question would be something like, "OK. Now that we know what can happen in the worst possible case, what is our strategy for preventing it in the future?"

------------

P.S. I was typing when you said, "Stay out of it." Stay out of it? Don't you sass your mama, young man! Do not MAKE me stop this car! If you're going to have Geek-sex without a condom, I do NOT plan to babysit the resulting offspring, so don't even think about dropping them off at Grandma's house! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Two 6 Pac]

Yes mamm

[Kim Yonkee]

There's a good boy.

[pat pat]

http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Two 6 Pac]

You wana go dancing? mom

[Kim Yonkee]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the ever-creative stv (&G) will be hosting the Oedipal Ball any day now.

[Two 6 Pac]

too cool! I suppose?

Call me, OK?

[Kim Yonkee]

You see? This is EXACTLY what happens when impressionable young men are raised in homosexual households.

[Two 6 Pac]

Well like I've always said, "Works for me"

[Jhawkr]

Since the phrase "conspiracy theory" has been used to browbeat 'cinda several times on this thread, I thought this excerpt might be of interest. The main topic is "Reflections on the Pentagon Strike"

September 2002 (with updates through2004) - In recent weeks, there has been quite a bit of controversy on the internet regarding the 9-11 attack on the World Trade Center and Pentagon. I have to admit that I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to what I perceived as a frenzy of conspiracy theories at first. But then, so many readers wrote to ask me what I think about it that I decided I had better have a look before I gave an answer. I followed link after link, read and examined site after site, and at the end, I settled down to try to figure out what I could extract out of the morass of conflicting perspectives on the Pentagon Crash.

Certainly, anyone who approaches this subject and suggests anything other than the accepted media/government version is going to be accused of being a "conspiracy theorist." I need to state for the record that I have spent 30 years studying psychology, history, culture, religion, myth and the paranormal. I also have worked for many years with hypnotherapy - which gives me a very good mechanical knowledge of how the mind/brain of the human being operates at very deep levels. This leads me to certain facts about the human mind that I don't think the average person knows.

There is a little known fact about hypnosis that is illustrated by the following story:

A subject was told under hypnosis that when he was awakened he would be unable to see a third man in the room who, it was suggested to him, would have become invisible. All the "proper" suggestions to make this "true" were given, such as "you will NOT see so- and-so" etc... When the subject was awakened, lo and behold! the suggestions did NOT work.

Why? Because they went against his belief system. He did NOT believe that a person could become invisible.

So, another trial was made. The subject was hypnotized again and was told that the third man was leaving the room... that he had been called away on urgent business, and the scene of him getting on his coat and hat was described... the door was opened and shut to provide "sound effects," and then the subject was brought out of the trance.

Guess what happened?

He was UNABLE TO SEE the Third Man.

Why? Because his perceptions were modified according to his beliefs. Certain "censors" in his brain were activated in a manner that was acceptable to his ego survival instincts.

The ways and means that we ensure survival of the ego is established pretty early in life by our parental and societal programming. This conditioning determines what IS or is NOT possible; what we are "allowed" to believe in order to be accepted. We learn this first by learning what pleases our parents and then later we modify our belief based on what pleases our society - our peers - to believe. This is "transference." We transfer our desire/need to please our parents to our society, even our government.

Anyway, to return to our story, the Third Man went about the room picking things up and setting them down and doing all sorts of things to test the subject's awareness of his presence, and the subject became utterly hysterical at this "anomalous" activity! He could see objects moving through the air, doors opening and closing, but he could NOT see the SOURCE because he did not believe that there was another man in the room.

So, what are the implications of this factor of human consciousness? (By the way, this is also the reason why most therapy to stop bad habits does not work - they attempt to operate against a "belief system" that is imprinted in the subconscious that this or that habit is essential to survival.)

One of the first things we might observe is that everyone has a different set of beliefs based upon their social and familial conditioning, and that these beliefs determine how much of the OBJECTIVE reality anyone is able to access.

Realities, objective, subjective, or otherwise, are a touchy subject. Suffice it to say that years of work inside the minds of all kinds of people has taught me that we almost never perceive reality as it truly IS.

In the above story, the objective reality IS WHAT IT IS. In this story, there is clearly a big part of that reality that is inaccessable to the subject due to a perception censor which was activated by the suggestions of the hypnotist. That is to say, the subject has a strong belief, based upon his CHOICE as to who or what to believe. In this case, he has chosen to believe the hypnotist and not what he might be able to observe if he dispensed with the perception censor put in place by the hypnotist who activated his "belief center" - even if that activation was fraudulent.

And so it is with nearly all human beings: we believe the hypnotist - the "official culture" - and we are able, with preternatural cunning, to deny what is often right in front of our faces. And in the case of the hypnosis subject, he is entirely at the mercy of the "Invisible Man" because he chooses not to see him.

Let's face it: we are all taught to avoid uncomfortable realities. Human beings - faced with unpleasant truths about themselves or their reality - react like alcoholics who refuse to admit their condition, or the cuckold husband who is the "last to know," or the wife who does not notice that her husband is abusing her daughter.

I am not surprised at the state of denial of the majority of human beings. It is the cultural norm. I am also not surprised at the projection of their discomfort onto those who ask uncomfortable questions by accusing them of being "conspiracy theorists."

Now that the reader has some idea that they are probably going to deny nearly everything that I am going to say, let us move to the "context" that I believe may be important to the events of 9-11. The context is that the term "conspiracy theory" has been tootled for a number of years in such a way that the mere pronouncing of the words acts to turn off the thinking capacities of the average American. It is almost as effective as pronouncing any criticism of Israeli government to be anti-Semitic.

The first thing we want to think about is the fact that the word "conspiracy" evokes such a strong reaction in all of us: nobody wants to be branded as a "conspiracy theorist." It just isn't "acceptable." It's "un-scientific" or it's evidence of mental instability. Right? That's what you are thinking, isn't it?

In fact, I bet that the very reading of the word even produces certain physiological reactions: a slight acceleration of the heartbeat, and perhaps a quick glance around to make sure that no one was watching while you simply read the word silently.

Have you ever asked yourself WHY the word evokes such an instantaneous emotional reaction? Have you ever wondered why it stimulates such a strong "recoil?" After all, it is only a word. It only describes the idea of people in "high places" thinking about things and doing things that manipulate other people to produce benefits for themselves.

Richard M. Dolan studied at Alfred University and Oxford University before completing his graduate work in history at the University of Rochester, where he was a finalist for a Rhodes scholarship. Dolan studied U.S. Cold War strategy, Soviet history and culture, and international diplomacy. He has written about "conspiracy" in the following way:

The very label [conspiracy] serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue.

The United States comprises large organizations - corporations, bureaucracies, "interest groups," and the like - which are conspiratorial by nature. That is, they are hierarchical, their important decisions are made in secret by a few key decision-makers, and they are not above lying about their activities. Such is the nature of organizational behavior. "Conspiracy," in this key sense, is a way of life around the globe.

Within the world's military and intelligence apparatuses, this tendency is magnified to the greatest extreme. During the 1940s, [...] the military and its scientists developed the world's most awesome weapons in complete secrecy... [...]

Anyone who has lived in a repressive society knows that official manipulation of the truth occurs daily. But societies have their many and their few. In all times and all places, it is the few who rule, and the few who exert dominant influence over what we may call official culture. - All elites take care to manipulate public information to maintain existing structures of power. It's an old game.

America is nominally a republic and free society, but in reality an empire and oligarchy, vaguely aware of its own oppression, within and without. I have used the term "national security state" to describe its structures of power. It is a convenient way to express the military and intelligence communities, as well as the worlds that feed upon them, such as defense contractors and other underground, nebulous entities. Its fundamental traits are secrecy, wealth, independence, power, and duplicity.

Nearly everything of significance undertaken by America's military and intelligence community in the past half-century has occured in secrecy. The undertaking to build an atomic weapon, better known as the Manhattan Project, remains the great model for all subsequent activities. For more than two years, not a single member of Congress even knew about it although its final cost exceeded two billion dollars.

During and after the Second World War, other important projects, such as the development of biological weapons, the importation of Nazi scientists, terminal mind-control experiments, nationwide interception of mail and cable transmissions of an unwitting populace, infiltration of the media and universities, secret coups, secret wars, and assassinations all took place far removed not only from the American public, but from most members of Congress and a few presidents. Indeed, several of the most powerful intelligence agencies were themselves established in secrecy, unknown by the public or Congress for many years.

Since the 1940s, the US Defense and Intelligence establishment has had more money at its disposal than most nations. In addition to official dollars, much of the money is undocumented. From its beginning, the CIA was engaged in a variety of off-the-record "business" activities that generated large sums of cash. The connections of the CIA with global organized crime (and thus de facto with the international narcotics trade) has been well established and documented for many years. - Much of the original money to run the American intelligence community came from very wealthy and established American families, who have long maintained an interest in funding national security operations important to their interests.

In theory, civilian oversight exists over the US national security establishment. The president is the military commander-in-chief. Congress has official oversight over the CIA. The FBI must answer to the Justice Department. In practice, little of this applies. One reason has to do with secrecy. [...]

A chilling example of such independence occurred during the 1950s, when President Eisenhower effectively lost control of the US nuclear arsenal. The situation deteriorated so much that during his final two years in office, Eisenhower asked repeatedly for an audience with the head of Strategic Air Command to learn what America's nuclear retaliatory plan was. What he finally learned in 1960, his final year in office, horrified him: half of the Northern Hemisphere would be obliterated.

If a revered military hero such as Eisenhower could not control America's nuclear arsenal, nor get a straight answer from the Pentagon, how on earth could Presidents Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, or Nixon regarding comparable matters?

Secrecy, wealth and independence add up to power. Through the years, the national security state has gained access to the wrorld's most sophisticated technology sealed off millions of acres of land from public access or scrutiny, acquired unlimited snooping ability within US borders and beyond, conducted overt or clandestine actions against other nations, and prosecuted wars without serious media scrutiny. Domestically, it maintains influence over elected officials and communities hoping for some of the billions of defense dollars. [including scientists, universities, etc.]

Deception is the key element of warfare, and when winning is all that matters, the conventional morality held by ordinary people becomes an impediment. When taken together, the examples of official duplicity form a nearly single totality. They include such choice morsels as the phony war crisis of 1948, the fabricated missile gap claimed by the air force during the 1950s, the carefully managed events leading to the Gulf of Tonkin resolution... [...]

The secrecy stems from a pervasive and fundamental element of life in our world, that those who are at the top of the heap will always take whatever steps are necessary to maintain the status quo.

[S]keptics often ask, "Do you really think the government could hide [anything] for so long?" The question itself reflects ignorance of the reality that secrecy is a way of life in the National Security State. Actually though, the answer is yes, and no.

Yes, in that cover-ups are standard operating procedure, frequently unknown to the public for decades, becoming public knowledge by a mere roll of the dice. But also no, in that ... information has leaked out from the very beginning. It is impossible to shut the lid completely. The key lies in neutralizing and discrediting unwelcomed information, sometimes through official denial, other times through proxies in the media.

[E]vidence [of conspiracy] derived from a grass roots level is unlikely to survive its inevitable conflict with official culture. And acknowledgement about the reality of [conspiracies] will only occur when the official culture deems it worthwhile or necessary to make it. [Don't hold your breath.]

This is a widespread phenomenon affecting many people, generating high levels of interest, taking place in near-complete secrecy, for purposes unknown, by agencies unknown, with access to incredible resources and technology. A sobering thought and cause for reflection. [Richard Dolan]

Now, think about the word "conspiracy" one more time and allow me to emphasize the key point: From a historical point of view, the ONLY reality is that of conspiracy. Secrecy, wealth and independence add up to power. ...Deception is the key element of warfare, (the tool of power elites), and when winning is all that matters, the conventional morality held by ordinary people becomes an impediment. Secrecy stems from a pervasive and fundamental element of life in our world, that those who are at the top of the heap will always take whatever steps are necessary to maintain the status quo.

And how do they do that? By "official culture."

And official culture, understood this way, from the perspective of elite groups wishing to maintain the status quo of their power, means only one thing: COINTELPRO. And here we do not necessarily mean the specific FBI program, but the concept of the program and its application in our society, and the likelihood that this has been the mode of controlling human beings for possibly millennia. Certainly, Machiavelli outlined the principles a very long time ago and little has changed since.

The fact is, it is almost a mechanical system that operates based on the psychological nature of human beings, most of whom LIKE to live in denial or need to live in denial to please their parents, their peers, their religious leaders, and their political leaders. After all, "if ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise." This is most especially true when we consider the survival instinct of the ego. If the official culture says that there is no Third Man in the room, and if it works through the inculcated belief systems, there is little possibility that the "subject" will be able to see the source of the phenomena in our world. It will always be an "invisible Third Man."

Consider this also: even if Dolan is writing specifically about America, in a world dominated by the United States, it must be considered that pressures are applied elsewhere from within this "National Security State" to comply with the demands of the US.

Now, here is the clincher: The reader might wish to have a look at Kevin MacDonald's The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements where they will learn that "ethnic Jews have a powerful influence in the American media—far larger than any other identifiable group. The extent of Jewish ownership and influence on the popular media in the United States is remarkable given the relatively small proportion of the population that is Jewish."

In other words, Israel is in control of the means of creating the "official culture" of America to suit its own agenda, including making the terms "conspiracy theory" and "anti-Semitic" such horrible epithets that no one would dare to speak anything that might put them at risk of be so branded!

There exists in our world today a powerful and dangerous secret cult.
So wrote Victor Marchetti, a former high-ranking CIA official, in his book The CIA and the Cult of Intelligence. This is the first book the U.S. Government ever went to court to censor before publication. In this book, Marchetti tells us that there IS a "Cabal" that rules the world and that its holy men are the clandestine professionals of the Central Intelligence Agency.

In our opinion, the CIA is but one "arm" of the cult, just as Dominicans were but one order of the Catholic Church. To borrow from, and paraphrasing, Marchetti:

This cult is patronized and protected by the highest level government officials in the world. It's membership is composed of those in the power centers of government, industry, commerce, finance, and labor. It manipulates individuals in areas of important public influence - including the academic world and the mass media. The Secret Cult is a global fraternity of a political aristocracy whose purpose is to further the political policies of persons or agencies unknown. It acts covertly and illegally.

"The main threat to Democracy comes not from the extreme left but from the extreme right, which is able to buy huge sections of the press and radio, and wages a constant campaign to smear and discredit every progressive and humanitarian measure." - George Seldes
"There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself." Daniel K. Inouye U.S. Senator

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." - Woodrow Wilson, The New Freedom (1913)

Remember: those who are at the top of the heap will always take whatever steps are necessary to maintain the status quo and the way this is done is via "official culture" which is a product of COINTELPRO.

The most effective weapon of COINTELPRO is Ridicule and Debunking. Notice that Marchetti points out that this is done via manipulation of individuals in areas of important public influence - including the academic world and the mass media.

Bottom line is: if you have bought into the emotionally manipulated consensus of "official culture" that there are no conspiracies, that there is no "Third Man," it is very likely that you are being manipulated by fear of ridicule. You are in denial. You have been hypnotized by the suggestions of the holy men of the Secret Cult. And you have chosen to believe them over your own possible observations and senses.

From an "Expert" on Lies:

The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, because the vast masses of a nation are, in the depths of their hearts, more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad.
The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them more easy victims of a big lie than a small one, because they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell big ones. Such a form of lying would never enter their heads. They would never credit others with the possibility of such great impudence as the complete reversal of facts.

Even explanations would long leave them in doubt and hesitation, and any trifling reason would dispose them to accept a thing as true. Something therefore always remains and sticks from the most imprudent of lies, a fact which all bodies and individuals concerned in the art of lying in this world know only too well, and therefore they stop at nothing to achieve this end.
~ Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

[Lucinda]

Thanks Jhawker, that is an interesting report and articulates what I've always believed about our government and those who rule with wealth and power.

I've never considered myself a conspiracy theorist, but I know conspiracy exists when I see it. In ES, it's all around us via city government - the power but not the wealth.

Mayor Harrison has assumed total control, but she is a follower, not a leader. She takes direction from those in the shadows, one being former Mayor Satori.

It is the secrecy, the manipulation, lies and disinformation that I despise around here.

And I see they've drawn many of their strategies from national politics... following Republican tactics..yet they consider themselves Liberals. That is an irony in itself...this group has been fighting the establishment for so long they've become exactly what they once hated.

[ilovemyreka]

i've raised the question before, and don't remember the answer. but i still think you should consider running for a seat on the commission, or council, or whatever it is called in ES, Lucinda. jump right in and work to fix the problem. you obviously have a handle on perceived wrongdoings. what's that old saying...if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem?

[gayle]

I agree...it's the old "put up, or shut up" thing. What about it Lucinda? You got the balls?

[becauseican]

So is it you or mj that has the Balls
gayle?

[ilovemyreka]

well....ummm...thats not EXACTLY what i was thinking, gayle.... http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif

but Lucinda, you seem to have such an incredible amount of energy and zeal when it comes to issues with municipal government..it would just seem logical to me that if you held the position of alderman and that energy was focused on actually DOING something about the way the city was run, instead of spending so much time and energy vocalizing your suspicions and criticizing every move. if you were an alderman, or alderwoman or aldergirl...you could actually be part of the process AND get to the bottom of all the wrong-doing AND reveal the truth AND help get ES on the right track!

but there i go again...using that "L" word...logical. http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif silly me...

[gayle]

Originally posted by becauseican:
So is it you or mj that has the Balls
gayle?

I don't live in ES....and if I did, the last thing I would want is to be involved in it politically. It's a vicious nasty arena to be sure. I don't have the balls for the slander, lies and inuendo. I don't have the balls to be silent when people like you decide to lash out in hatred and frustration. I would make a LOUSY politician because I like truth.
You need to examine within yourself what keeps the anger and hatred so close to the surface. Maybe it's a good time, in light of your recent loss, to give thanks for the good things in your life, for the people who love you and for the blessings you have been given and try to put aside the anger and hatred. I don't think it's serving you well at this time.....do you?

[becsflowers]

I agree with Lucinda. The people of Eureka Springs have every right to SEE the money. It IS, after all, THEIR money.

[gayle]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Becs. But surely there are better ways to see that done than maligning people on grudgefest....I mean geekfest? There appear to be legal maneuvers available...why aren't they being done? Bitching endlessly on geekfest moves nothing along but more anger and hatred.

[becauseican]

Gayle,
You do not know me, or anything about my loss! I do have so much disrespect for the people at city hall. But many other people do to....Not trusting someone comes from the actions they choose to make! PLEASE DO NOT MEANTION MY LOSS, YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF
THAT!
oh by the way could you tell me why MJ got fired from being deputy clerk? Since you belive in the truth?

[gayle]

I have no idea why MJ was fired as deputy clerk....I didn't know her during that time in her life. I still think you should give some thought to my previous suggestion. Your hatred consumes you.

[becauseican]

gayle "I would make a LOUSY politician because I like truth."

But its okay that MJ is constantly printing untruths?

[Lucinda]

First off, I don't hate anyone but I hate what they do - or don't do.

When Gayle continualy does 'her thing' she's simply trying to discredit my postings for tone rather than content. If you read Jhawkers post, you'll find it is just a tactic...which will not keep me from calling a spade a spade, instead of 'others' trying to convince everyone it is a shovel.

There are any number of people in this town who agree with my take on this screwy and dishonest admin, who do not post.

There are many people who have been singled out for abuse by the 'city' and 'city cronies'.... abuse for one resident where friends get away with anything. Double standards abound here.

The 'city' and some commissioners play games with peoples livelihoods and often destroy their victims reputations in the process. Satori is a master at this tactic and, unfortunately, the newspapers assist in anyway possible....because their reporting provides personal gain.

Reka, I did consider running this last term but did not because I'm about to start a medication that will make me very sick... I would not be able to serve effectively.

I feel I've done my part by working very hard on the 'special election' - meant to provide the city with a professional structure, rather than what we currently have. If the election were held later in 2003, it would have passed.

This will make many people very happy...I have decided to place my property for sale toward the end of my year long chemo. Not because they've 'won' but to move to the corridor, to find a job that provides health insurance...which is something I cannot live without.

So, a public office in the future will be out of the question.

[gayle]

Godspeed Lucinda.

[becauseican]

gayle
hatred is when YOU would mention my loss on this board in the matter that you did!

[OvertheRiver]

Originally posted by becauseican:
gayle "I would make a LOUSY politician because I like truth."

But its okay that MJ is constantly printing untruths?

Truth is such a fluid thing,colored by the perceptions and beliefs of the beholder ...... what about some facts instead?

[Lucinda]

OTR, there have been many truths posted here and those who actually watch the council meetings know the difference between truth and lies.

People see the truth where others try to avoid it...because either the truth hurts, requires too much effort or the truth works against their personal priorties.

[becauseican]

When i was involved in trying to change the
form of gov. she wrote that i was on school
property during school hours, and that i lied to get the teachers to sign my petition.

The FACT was i was given permission from Reck Wallis to walk my petition around after school, which is what i did. When i read her article in the paper i called every teacher that had signed and asked if they in any way felt as if i lied or cohorst them into signing the petition. Everyone said no and that they never even
talked to MJ.

The Fact is if you live in Eureka and Watch or attend the Council Meetings and then read
what MJ writes in the paper then you would no the truth.