This Fails the Sniff Test

[JET]

What in the world is going on with the sewer plant. The PWD failed to notice someone knocking a 12 foot hole in city property? Give me a break.

[Lucinda]

JET, awhile back you suggested the "change the world group" look into this.

Well, a lot of people have been "looking into this" and the story and the stench will only get more interesting as time passes. (Note many of us knew about this story on June 1 & 2 yet not a word written in the TE.)

This mayor, a few councilmen, and the current public works director-city engineer-and-consultant have made accusations on the record of over 2 million dollars of taxpayer money being "wasted" by 2 different administrations. It is time to support these wild allegations in court. Taxpayers deserve real answers to claims of that amount of money lost.

[JET]

What is the PWD thinking? If this happened on his watch? He should be fired. Can we all say coverup?

[This message has been edited by JET (edited 06-10-2004).]

[JET]

As far as the TE goes. No news there. Won't be either.

[Lucinda]

Originally posted by JET:
What in the world is going on with the sewer plant. The PWD failed to notice someone knocking a 12 foot hole in city property? Give me a break.

Quote the city employee (Clark) "I was following instructions of the engineer (Tracy) and the projet manager (Still)."

Quote the Citizen: "Another plant employee fired on June 2 wrote a letter supporting Clark's story."

Quote the Citizen: "Still encountered Clark while he was deconstructing the filter and told him repeatedly to stop."

Quote the Citizen: "Forrest said he didn't file a police report, or report with the ADEQ for 3 weeks after the incident...(he) had to complete an investigation first."

an alledged 1 million in damage and they watched it happen, didn't stop it, didn't call the police, didn't report alleged contamination to the ADEQ, and did not file charges for 3 weeks? Come on people, something's rotten in Denmark.

[JET]

Waited three weeks. Bull, He had to get his story right.

[JET]

Vandalism over a week long peroid? How offen does the PWD check in? Was there a picture in the Citizen of the wall being torn down? Something stinks and it's not the sewer.

[Heretic]

Maybe the PWD can tell us all about it on the weekly tee vee show he wanted to host when he first came to town.

[JET]

Maybe on the tee vee show? I would love the watch the next one.

[becauseican]

Is it just me, or has anyone else notice that the million dollars worth of damage that was done to the treatment plant is the amount of money they need to finish this project!
I don’t know maybe it’s just a coincidence.

[a~Walker~I~am]

you know this is a little scary the more I read and the more I look as I drive by. I have got to ask one question here, has ANYONE called the EPA on this? And if not, should we?!?!?!?
Someone in City Hall PLEASE let us know here....
Gayla

[JET]

This could be right BIC. Can anyone say? Filing a false report.

[Kaye Miller]

Just pointing out the obvious here. Has anyone noticed Who? has not jumped in to tell everyone how wrong they are?

And, what about all the equipment that cost mucho money that has not, according to newspaper reports, even been "hooked up" or brought on line or whatever needed to be done under the emergency measures? Whose watch does that fall under?

It is always interesting to watch where the buck stops in Eureka....always the employees. I would be terrified to work for the city.

[This message has been edited by Kaye Miller (edited 06-12-2004).]

[JET]

Another good point. Where is Who? I wonder how the PA is doing checking all this out? Wanna bet how it turns out?

[Lucinda]

Jet, IMHO, the council should immediately stop the work at the plant and demand and arrange for an investigation - to include the ADEQ and outside consultants to unwind what the heck happened and why.

If this gets swept under the table, if little or no action is taken by council then there will be grounds for declaring the whole lot of them guilty of at least nonfeasance - for inaction in the face of allegations made by public officials and/or city employees.

Any citizen or group of citizens can lodge charges with the DA. A referendum can be circulated to stop further work at the plant.

This isn't just a case of he-said-she-said....it's way beyond that now.

[WHAT!!!!]

waiting for the mayor to blame james devito for the sewer plant, ha ha. both mayors, he he. and royal will blame the bank of eureka springs.

[moontoo]

Surely someone in an official position has contacted the EPA. That should have been done at the very first "sniff" of trouble.

I've always wondered if Tracy engineering is bonded to do all the work they plan and are doing. I certainly hope so. I don't think the EPA will recognize any person planning work on a sewer plant unless they have an Arkansas Engineering stamp. Does the public works director? At a council meeting one of the council persons asked if the work would be guarnateed. If the company doing the work is Bonded it would be. The PWD says the work can be done for 2 1/2 million then bonds should be sold for that. A city doesn't do this sort of work piece meal.

[Lucinda]

A number of people, official and unofficial, have contacted the ADEQ. I suspect more will follow. With each phone call the ADEQ is learning something they were not previously told through "official" channels.

It is apparent PW IS doing the work peicemeal and have already started. They want to re-direct bond money from 2000 and 2002 away from repairs and to new plant construction. They all seem to miss the fact that ordinaces were passed specific to repairs, not to a new redesign. (repairs BECAUSE that is what THE VOTERS chose in 1998!!)

They also claim they "have the money" to build a new plant from these bonds, and reserves, and it seems they want money also from the retaining wall account. I suspect they do not have "enough", not by a long shot.

According to people who understand these things, to destroy the trickling filter and turn it into rainwater run-off holding is like trying to bail out the Titantic with a tablespoon.

Still has an Oklahoma class 4 license and Forrest has an Oklahoma class 2 license. Other posters are correct - it is against the LAW for them to work on our plant without Arkansas licenses. Right now the ADEQ is giving them "reciprocal" priviledges. Wonder how long THAT will last given these new charges.

This keeps looking like one gigantic snow job to me. There better be a full blown investigation - of EVERYONE involved.

Those voters who are angered by this whole thing have enormous power. Use it.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 06-13-2004).]

[moontoo]

If someone wants to complain to the EPA they need to put it in writing with their name signed...phone calls may be listened to but do not carry the weight that signed letters do.

I could be way off track but a city cannot redirect bond money from Bonds that are already sold. Those bonds were sold for a specific purpose. Also whenever a city is even talking bonds they need an attorney with experience in Bonds.

I seldom if ever agree with Lucinda but on the sewer I believe she is correct. Someone better listen to all this. People can live without Police & Fire protection, they can drive on streets with pot holes everywhere and pretty well make it without other city servicese but they cannot make it without water and sewer!
One other question is Troy engineering have a Arkansas Engineering stamp?

[Heretic]

Ask for the most recent independent or state audit of the sewer and water accounts for Eureka Springs. I'll not be holding my breath while you wait.

[who?]

It is more fun to watch you try to blame the mayor on what happened. I haven't jumped because it is the same group spouting "'IT WAS HER"
fault. They will say it is against the law and want to know what the PC is doing about it. And when it is over they will jump on something else tell everyone it is against the law and on and on. They are a broken record

This is the same group that watched one of there leaders break law after law when she was in the position of god at city hall. They always had a excuse that it was ok.
Post the law broken . You have the right to file with the PC yourself. Do it.

As far as the money earmarked for "repairs" Check what that expense was compared to what they say a new plant can be built for.
Interesting how throwing money away at patching is ok with the good old boys. Even if it would cost more than building a new plant. The difference must be who's pocket was being filled.

[JET]

Lucinda, I seldom agree with you either but I do in this case. The work needs to stop until things can be sorted out. I've heard anyone blame the mayor for this. Not yet. So, If you have some info? Mr. Who. Lets US know.

[a~Walker~I~am]

Well ok then, my one question seems to have been answered (that is if it is true, and the EPA has been contacted).
Next question(s), is this something I should go to the PWD and ask them the safety concerns I have? Will they be able to tell me that all is ok? Or should I call City Hall?
My worries are- How does (will) this affect the water my family drinks and the air my family breathes? SHOULD I be concerned?
Now let me tell you a little about myself and why this concerns me so. I have been a member of this BBS since Oct.2000. I have 20 post (before this one). I have never gotten involved in any of the politics of the city as I have only been a "real" member of the community here for almost a year now. I am just a lurker who comes here every single day as part of my morning routine and use this BBS for entertainment purposes only and it was a way for me to see what was going on back "home" when I was not here.
I am not for or against anyone. I do however, dig Beau. I miss Royal's words, I LOVE to read what Becky, Kim, Pat Milam and a few others have to say. Some of you make me chuckle (esp. S&L) and inform me (esp Hilltop). Some of you get on my nerves as I wonder how can you post that? and I will skip the words. Some of you I know, some of you- I feel I know, and some of you I don't care to know. I just come here everyday, just to see what may be going on....
So why now should I really care about the sewer issue? Most anyone who does know me, they know where I live now. Our water comes from a well and the air I breathe is a lot closer to this plant then most of you. You see I live RIGHT down stream from this plant, the first driveway you come upon after passing the plant. We knew this moving in and it was not a concern.
I am not pointing my fingers at the mayor, I do however believe a really mad employee might have taken his anger out to prove a point or whatever. At this point I don't care who's fault it is or any of the politics involved!
I am however asking for advice on the environmental issues and SAFETY concerns. Should I be concerned and if so what do I do, who do I call? Simple. I really do get tired of the long winded posts sometimes and I am sorry about this one, I just have a need to explain why I am a bit worried....
Thanks for your time and now back to lurking......
Gayla

[Lucinda]

Gayla, you might want to call the ADEQ yourself for answers to your concerns. I do not have their number but the office is Little Rock and the ADEQ officer in the ES loop is Mark Owens.
---------
Who: You need a little clarity in your life. It is THE CITY claiming over 2 million has been wasted at the plant - as reported in the newspapers. That sizable claim cannot slide by with just a shrug of the shoulders. It is coming DIRECTLY out of your pocket.

If the proper authorities do not fully investigate this ENTIRE claim, you can bet citizens WILL get involved.

As for the repairs, again, THE VOTERS mandated repairs versus a new plant in 1998. The PATCH job plans and the bonds to pay for those patches were a DIRECT result of that vote.

I am just as interested in the claim of 1 million wasted in the past as I am in 1 million wasted last month. When I say ENTIRE claim - that is exactly what I mean.

I HOPE those making these claims are prepared to restate and support them under oath.


[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 06-13-2004).]

[Lucinda]

Moontoo - I believe Tracey engineering is also the "engineer of record" for Rogers or Springdale, so I suspect they do have a stamp. I don't know about the bonding side of your other question.

As for your opinion about re-directing money for the bond, I happen to agree with you - I cannot believe it is a simple as they've made it out to be.

Here is the first few paragraphs from the bond ordinance dated November 2, 2000. It certainly reads to be project specific. At the very least it seems a new ordinance is in order.

ORDINANCE NO. 1854
AN ORDINANCE AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE AND SALE OF WATER AND SEWER REVENUE BONDS; PROVIDING FOR THE PAYMENT OF THE PRINCIPAL OF AND INTEREST ON THE BONDS; PRESCRIBING OTHER MATTERS RELATING THERETO; AND DECLARING AN EMERGENCY.

WHEREAS, the City of Eureka Springs,Arkansas (the "City") owns water and sewer facilities, which are operated as a single, integrated municipal undertaking (the "System"); and

WHEREAS, the [City Council has determined that extensions, betterments and
improvements to the System (the "Improvements") are necessary in order to make the services
thereof adequate for the needs of the City and has caused to be prepared a preliminary report, general
plans and specifications and estimates of cost for the Improvements all as described in detail in the
plans and specifications, which plans and specifications have been examined and approved by the City
Council and a copy of which plans and specifications are on file in the office of the City Clerk where
they may be inspected by any interested person; and....................

[Lucinda]

Originally posted by who?:
It is more fun to watch you try to blame the mayor on what happened. I haven't jumped because it is the same group spouting "'IT WAS HER"
fault. They will say it is against the law and want to know what the PC is doing about it. And when it is over they will jump on something else tell everyone it is against the law and on and on. They are a broken record

This is the same group that watched one of there leaders break law after law when she was in the position of god at city hall. They always had a excuse that it was ok.
Post the law broken . You have the right to file with the PC yourself. Do it.

As far as the money earmarked for "repairs" Check what that expense was compared to what they say a new plant can be built for.
Interesting how throwing money away at patching is ok with the good old boys. Even if it would cost more than building a new plant. The difference must be who's pocket was being filled.

I'm curious over your last comment. Who's pockets are being filled now?

[who?]

Originally posted by Lucinda:
I'm curious over your last comment. Who's pockets are being filled now?

Go back and read your own post. You are making a big deal about the city wasting 2 million on the plant
In you normal spincycle you forgot one thing. It happened on YOUR groups leaders watch. Not in the last 100 days. But as usual you are trying to make it like it is the mayors doing.

What does your ex council and multiple mayor candidate friend say. That is when the money was being thrown at the patching. You are a lot closer to the people who were throwing money at it than me. Just ask them why.

[a~Walker~I~am]

Here we go! around 2:00 this afternoon (yesterday by the time yall' read this) I had asked some SIMPLE questions on a very important issue WAY too close to my home here. Not a whole lot of advice given, cept for Lucinda and I thank you and it was a thought and figured I better get on this first thing Monday morning if I wanted the answers I was looking for.
No need.
At around 5- 5:30ish this evening (saturday) as I was nodding off after an afternoon of working in the garden, I hear voices coming up to the door. There stands my landlord and a lady I have never seen before.
The lady introduced herself as Marilyn Still. I know this name and it takes me a short second to realize she is part of the PWD from what I read in the citizen.
My first thoughts were "oh no, what have I done?" And she goes on to explain herself.
It seems on saturday afternoon as she is working in her yard, ON HER TIME, and a friend calls her up to tell her about my post on geekfest. She goes and reads it and is so compelled by my sincerity that she stops what she is doing and drives all the way out here to address MY CONCERNS!
I still can't believe it. Did I have to wait till monday and go through whatever channels for answers? No.
The lady showed up at my door, dressed in her gardening- saturday best, no suits and no BS and answered every question that myself and our landlord had.
Do I feel better? You betcha. There are no politics here, no hidden agendas.
Just straight forward answers to my questions. Was the EPA called? Yes.
By whom and why it does not matter as I believe her when she says, THEY want them here!!! They (PWD) ask for their (EPA's) help. They HAVE run their little test and all is clear and she tells me, I am more than welcome to view the results! nothing hidden, no lies.
If I have more concerns in the future do you think I can call her? I truly feel I can, cause all I asked was a simple question and this lady went WAY beyond her duty to help me. Thank you ma'am you have made me feel very special! And for putting these worries to rest. I wish you the best of luck here and Mrs. Still I do believe you are quite capable of "swimming in the not so murky stream full of sharks".
~Gayla

[sweetness&light]

Wow, this is impressive. For anyone to take themselves away from their personal time off to answer a question not put to them directly, but from someone who read your question...this is a good start. Now, before anyone gets their thong or knickers in a knot and thinks I feel every councilperson/mayor/director/whatever should drop what they're doing and run over to a citizen's house when a question is raised...not. I'm hoping this means she's trying to put out the beginnings of a fire by answering questions immediately in person before it turns into a forest fire.

How refreshing. Did she happen to say where all the flushings are going since those areas by the road have been cleaned out and that cement rotunda is still broken with a backhoe sitting in the middle? Never thought I'd say this, but I'm quite pleased with my septic system and leach lines right now.

Due to the time spent living in this town, I'd still call Monday morning.

[JET]

Does anyone know where the police are on this? If one guy can be fired for doing the damage? Should anyone be fired for allowing the damage.

[Lucinda]

Who – You don’t think wasting the cost of a whole new plant is a big deal? (Somehow I suspect you have knowledge those numbers might be greatly inflated.)

½ of that purported waste happened, if you believe the news report, on May 12th 2004 – under your watch.

You must also not watch council meetings.

Harrison and Forrest have told this council that the planning and decisions at the plant are theirs to make, not the council’s. Now, while I happen to vehemently disagree with the totality of that presumption, I do admit that on a day-to-day oversight level they are right. Council is there to make law – under this form of government, it is the mayor and the department heads who are charged with carrying out those decisions legally and efficiently.

The buck stops somewhere, Who.

This recent waste must ultimately be answered by the mayor as the direct supervisor of the PWD – as the elected official the department head answers to.

The waste of the first million trails right back to mayor Satori as the PWD answered directly to him. Somehow I am having doubts that Beau Satori has accepted the claim that so much money was wasted during his tenure – just because a few new employees claim the money was lost. I suspect that he, as with many of us, would like to see the underlying evidence first before accepting full responsibility for mismanagement under his watch

[Lucinda]

Gayla - I glad you were visited for the peace of mind it gave you. But, when faced with a serious health issue, I doubt you would only get one doctor's opinion. When it is serious - it is wise to get several opinions.

S&L, the ever wise, is probably spot on. Your visit was a kind act on Still's part, but it was also a very effective bit of damage control. Our PW department does notwant you to call the EPA on Monday morning. They don't want anyone from ES to call the EPA.

If you feel you recieved all the answers you need, great. But, if I were in your downstream shoes, I'd get a second opinion.

[Lucinda]

I just realized that my ADD brain is thinking ADEQ but typing EPA - wrong initials - it is the ADEQ overseeing our sewer and environmental issues. Here is the contact information:

ADEQ - Arkansas Department of Environmental Quality

Mark Owen
Enforcement Administrator
(501) 682-0636
Email http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/redface.gifwen@adeq.state.ar.us

....funny how that reads in the post - it's owen@adeq.state.ar.us.

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 06-13-2004).]

[JET]

Lucinda, If the damaged part of the plant was built with bond money? Is the damage federal?

[Lucinda]

That's a good question JET - I don't know.

From the first moment we heard they wanted to redirect bond money to the plant we started questioning if that was legal or appropriate. It cannot be that easy.

Reading the ordinance written for the 2000 issue, it is very clear the bond was called with full council approval - of the costs and of "the plan". The ordiance directly ties the money to the "plans on file at the city clerk's office." Those plans have nothing to do with with a new system.

This council has not taken one single vote on the new sewer design. They were told they didn't need to "do anything" - that they were only being "informed" of something they had little say over. They were promised a full accounting of the expected financials of building a new plant over a month ago - as of today, they've recieved nothing.

[who?]

You keep saying everything is against the law.
If you think it is federal call the FBI
If you think it is state call Tony Roger
If you think it is local call Earl
It you are wrong and it is none, You are the one saying it.
Let the ones you accuse call.

[JET]

Who,
If you think we are the thief
Your PDW called the chief
Do you think instead
He should have called the feds

[bear]

Lucinda why are you screaming now everyone has been contacted including ADEQ. Some of your half truths are hilarious. Hope no one is planning a libel suit against you. Matter of fact your an expert on anything that makes you mad so why dont you put it to a positive use instead of a negative use. I know that two wonderful ladies working at the plant have suceesfully converted a tore up trickling filter system into a activated sludge plant that was recently inspected by ADEQ and passed the inspection. Again no hard feelings but if you can spend so much time on geekfest why dont you really get out and make a positive contribution to the community. Do something charitable and worthwhile because honestly you are boring me with all your BS.

[James DeVito]

Bear, it`s obvious you don`t know anything about Lucinda. From what you have posted why don`t you stick to something you know, sh*t.

[bear]

Originally posted by James DeVito:
Bear, it`s obvious you don`t know anything about Lucinda. From what you have posted why don`t you stick to something you know, sh*t.

I agree

[Lucinda]

Bear - I was not aware I was screaming.

What I know about sewer plants only comes from what little I observe when driving by - they either stink or they do not.

Today, I know a little more - only because of what was planted in the press and stated at council meetings. It does not take a genius - just an interest and an attention span.

What was the purpose of those two articles in the Citizen? Whatever the "logic" was, it was a botched job.

Whomever you are, and whatever dog you have in this fight may never be known - you have an interest in the outcome - that's all I need to know.

There are only a few things in life I am certain of.....one of them is: "You reap what you sow".

[a~Walker~I~am]

Well since this topic is so close to our home (literally) I am going to keep at it.
S&L, yes the whole visit was very impressive and most informative. And the thing is, I truly do not believe this was a form of damage control! The lady came out from working in her yard with her hair pulled back and yard clothes and again no BS! Straight forward answers. Because she saw the sincerity in my post, as it was not filled with a bunch of political, name blaming crap! (I have to chuckle on that...oh these are my words, not hers). And I am not sure of the tank thing but do know there are two other tanks you can't really see from the road and it is my guess those are the ones being used. I will ask this when we do go up there to the PWD.
My husband says to "trust, then verify" and that is just what we are going to do. I could tell you all about our visit with Mrs. Still but then it would be second hand news. So my suggestion for ANYONE who is as concerned about this as we are to go and ask to see the test results (as we were invited to do).
She surly left me with the impression that they have an open door, so all you gotta do is go and walk through.
We do want to view these test results, just to see what they are and maybe to give us a better understanding but as far as making any phone calls come Monday, I don't think it is necessary as I am sure those of you upstream have already done that. I will save the ADEQ info though Lucinda, just in case the fishies that are down there in the stream right now, stop swimming and the turtles and the snakes.....
Gayla

[who?]

You notice every they post it includes "They or you have a interest in the outcome."
Just early campaigning. Ranting like they are the only ones in town that know anything. Everybody is breaking some law and no enforcement people are watching.
Same **** different day. Also why no answer. So the last council through money at the treatment plant and got rid of the mayors cell phone. Way to go!
One line says the plant won't work. The next. I don't know anything about them but they stink. The expert in everything who knows nothing except blame it on the mayor.
Remember when they are through with you. You will be history. If you don't explode first.

[Kaye Miller]

I think we need a new smilie legend for Who?.

Has anyone else noticed how articulate his posts are until the "midnight hours"? At that time he becomes very abusive and keeps repeating himself. ("In his cups"?) Those are the posts that remind me of why he couldn't post for a while.

Maybe we need 2 smilie legends... one for before l0:00 p.m. and one for after l0:00 p.m.

[Lucinda]

It's easy for several people to share the same login. Maybe that accounts for the split personality.

City council is tonight and those poor people are in for another marathon session. There are some really important discussions on the agenda they may not get to - or decide when exhausted. A wise council will put off the discussion of raising their own salaries for awhile.

[woodsdude]

Ms Miller you crack me up!

[JET]

Meds wear off at night.

[who?]

Originally posted by James DeVito:
Bear, it`s obvious you don`t know anything about Lucinda. From what you have posted why don`t you stick to something you know, sh*t.
You and bear have a lot in common. At least in what you know.

[JET]

I think Who needs a time out.

[just wondering]

I personally have a problem with ADEQ. They are the ones who said that the Aluminum deposits in Monte Ne Inlet to Beaver Lake are not a health hazzard. It is statements like this that are the reason I do not drink the local water. I depend on pure bottled spring water for drinking and cooking.

[JET]

JW, Don't trust them. I don't think they really are on our side? Do You?

[JET]

Today is the day. Lets see what the newspaper has to say.

[JET]

Times Echo. Five will be qustioned about damage to plant. Prosecutor's office is now involved.

[who?]

How could this be? The spincycle loses again. Another pre campaign blunder.

[Lucinda]

The whole town has lost - purportedly 2 million dollars.

We'll see what comes from the investigation. It is easy to make allegations in the press and whole 'nother story under oath.

[who?]

Are you counting what the last councils through at the plant. You keep saying 2 million like it happened last month. Break it down on the board.

[JET]

Is it dark in there? I don't give a rip about your taking up for the mayor. Or the past mayor for that matter. I just wanted to know about the hole in plant wall. How or who this could happened with the great PWD with have. IF the employee is cleared of this charge? He will own the city.

[bear]

The town has a estimated million dollars damage if it were replaced. The other million was wasted on upgrades to plant that do not work. Actually that part happened several months ago. Yes it is ashame the trickling filter was destroyed. But under oath will resolve a lot of questions.But 2 million dollars has not been lost. I feel that some people just want to tell the half of the story that benefits them and not the whole community. I feel more for the operator and the consultant that are working long work days to make the plant operate safely and as effiecently as it can. So while people complain remember two dedicated women that are doing their best to serve the citizens of ES.Believe me the filter was destroyed before the hole happened.

[This message has been edited by bear (edited 06-16-2004).]

[This message has been edited by bear (edited 06-16-2004).]

[who?]

I don't care what you think. Who you are or where you stand in line with the rip the mayor group. When your group lies and tries to make her look guilty of things she didn't do . You will get called on it. You will look like fools. Now go pat each other on the back in your little group. The rest of the town has figured you out.
Now show where she wasted 2 million
That is what you are trying to make it look like

Again nothing said about the council who through money at it . Fear thy leader

[James DeVito]

I thought council was told this was nothing they should be bothered with?

[Lucinda]

Bear – the estimate of 2 million lost came directly from the city and from the PW director. If that is a ‘made-up’ number, it is their fiction.

The only people “telling a story” are the very same people (in the Citizen and as reported in the TE). Anything written here is either speculation, or reasoning, based upon common sense, while interpreting what was written.

I don’t know a thing about the plant operator, but the consultant was Clark’s supervisor and one of those making the claim of sabotage. Dedicated or not, this happened under her watch.

No one knows when, if, or how the mayor is or is not involved. We do know she hired a PWD with no previous experience and without the proper classification required.

We also know that when this type of thing happens in the “real world” the manager (PWD) is immediately terminated - or at the very least suspended – not just slapped on the wrist.

[JET]

Ok Who, I've not attacked the mayor. All I asked. How did this damage happen? If the PWD did not ok this damage? Then he tired to cover it up. Plain and simple. Even JR Asslock could figure this one out.

[JET]

Not a word about in the Citizen about the sewer plant damage. Our PWD is looking for a Wastewater Superintendent. Is this the same job that was flushed last week? Hello.

[who?]

One of the first things the new public works director said about the plant was why.
Why was so much money wasted on the things that will not work. The plant would never work as it was yet the city had pissed almost enough in it to build a new one.
You probably missed it because the attracts on him started as soon as he got in town.
We had a construction expert on the council at one time. It is surprising to find out now about all the wasted money.

[JET]

Who, You speak of spin. If you know the answer to my questions? Please fill us in. All i've asked is how this happened. Not who was on the council. Not about the plant not working. Not about the wasted money. Only how this happened. I've not attacked the PWD. If the plant was not worth using or did not work? Why the charges for the hole in the wall. Take your time and come up with a good answer. Time to hit the grill.

[Lucinda]

The PWD, the consultant and others have said the plant "doesn't work, never will" - yet it was working. The plant was not under an ADEQ consent order. It was passing inspections. Yet, it was not working?

A new plant would be nice. Nice for the people of ES and nice for the people who will win the multi-million dollar contract to build it. But, they have yet to come up with estimates for exactly how much the plant will cost and exactly where the money will come from.

[who?]

Your answer will come with the police investigation. I don't know and will have to wait like everyone till charges if any are levied.
If you watched the PWD presentation of what they plan to do. I don't remember tearing out the tank in the first stage.
As far as the spincycle saying how the plant was working why did the 200+ out of compliance filing get left out of the spin. If her yapper wasn't going all the time and just waiting for the attack .The presentation they ripped apart said the people at public works would do the project in house. I'm sure they would have to hire more people and god forbid pay them a decent wage. That is what the PWD would like to do. I guess this guy think the people are a good investment. Think of the people that worked for the city 15 years and only made $1.50 more than new hires. That was ok for the workers but not the director.
So it looks like big contracts won't be awarded
Keep going spincycle the town loves hearing you make a fool of yourself. Maybe they can create a position for that. We all know you know a lawyer to run to behind everybody back to get ordinances written. By the way have you all paid him yet?

[Lucinda]

Here is a question. (not for youwho)

Let's say, god forbid, a house burns to the ground, but it is not clear if it is arson or an accident. What does the home owner do? Wait a month or so until the police investigates - before he/she calls his/her insurance company? Or is the insured responsible for immediately contacting the insurer so THEY can also be part of the investigation?

What possible reason could anyone give for not filing an insurance claim within 24hours of the loss?

[Lucinda]

Who, since you seem to know so much maybe you can answer the question of: WHERE is the money to build a new plant coming from and HOW MUCH will a new plant cost?

If you can answer these questions when no one else seems to be able to, then I nominate you as assistant turd plant director.

[Lucinda]

Originally posted by who?:
.....If you watched the PWD presentation of what they plan to do. I don't remember tearing out the tank in the first stage.
....

It is a very good thing no one is relying on your memory - or your logic - for their defense.

[oldwizard]

Who/Royal,

When you stated above "The presentation they ripped apart said the people at public works would do the project in house. I'm sure they would have to hire more people and god forbid pay them a decent wage. That is what the PWD would like to do.".

Isn't that exactly what Kirby drew so much flack for, hiring more people and paying a decent wage to do projects in house and save the city money?

It realy is who you know and not what you know in Eureka Springs, isn't it who?

Glenn Strange

If you like what you have been getting, keep doing what you have been doing.

[JET]

Who, If and when charges are filed? Either the little guy working by the hour did it or the PWD told him to start the damage. Charges had better be filed!!!! One way or the other. It was the PWD that called the police? First the PWD took away the job at the plant. Now he is looking for another to fill this job. Does this guy have all his oars in the water?

[OuterRing]

I understand it was all a plot to let the Mayor take control of the sewer system.

OR

[who?]

If I was turd director you would be my first flush.
Go ahead tell everyone the mayor was trying to cover up the big whole. They were going to hide it from the police and the insurance and the dog catcher.
As hard as this is for you to believe. No one at city hall has to answer to you. If they called when it was time after things got sorted out. That is for them to decide. In case you forgot. Your group didn't win. Now go have a fit because you don't think the insurance company was called fast enough. The whole town can see your desperate attempt to find anything to complain about. I mean campaign about.

[Lucinda]

Originally posted by who?:
If I was turd director you would be my first flush.....

That was very funny - too bad you had the ruin the moment and go on to be so mean.

I do get a kick out of bugging you so badly though.

[r u serious]

He/she/it isn't the only one you bug.

[Lucinda]

I'm wounded.

[JET]

Who, Who said the mayor did the job at the plant? None of US. Your wrong again about the running of the city. It could change. I would bet money of that. You wanna call that bet? Ask The BOE for a loan and lets play.

[Lucinda]

Jet, there will be a lot of news to report early this week, let's see how the newpapers cover the story(s). From what I am hearing, the truth is surfacing, and I am optimistic the proper authorities are doing a thorough job. We probably won’t like what we learn as this unfolds, but hopefully it will be the truth.

[Anymouse]

Here is a food for thought, and all of this is just my opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. If this PWD that looks like a loose cannon is running things, what is to say he is not skipping steps in the treatment process or just skipping it all together. Last time I was in town I noticed the deep black color of the creek bed downstream from the plant. If you are up stream from this plant the bed is colorful like one would expect it to look, showing the different color of the rocks on bottom. If the trickle tank is out of service, and the plant was at capacity before, what is going on now? Is over flow just being dumped? Is waste being released earlier than it should? Is table rock the major source of drinking water for Branson and surrounding communities? Is your tabloid of a paper ever going to report real news, or just what your mayor wants them to report? How can they ever expect to become a new paper of record with this behavior? To the people of the community that have no power and say so, I feel sorry for you. To those six who do have say so and still no power. Shut that blond cheerleader up and keep her gagged on that table, you might get out of a meeting in a couple of hours instead of 4-5, and god forbid get something real accomplished. Of course you still have that bookstore bimbo that breaks tax laws and yells at your bread and butter to lengthen the meeting, only recommendation I have is Duck Tape. It comes in clear now so your viewing audience might not notice it during the meetings. I doubt anything I have an opinion on and have expressed will change the fact that through out history Eureka has shot its own foot and then reloaded just in case it moved.

[JET]

Thanks Lucinda, I think we all know the answer. Someone jumped the gun and blamed someone else. We will just have to wait.

[becauseican]

Anymouse,
could'nt have said it better!

[who?]

Ms Mouse. Did you ever go check the creak before the whole?
Eureka has been dumping raw shi8 into the creak every time there is a hard rain for years. Someday when you are out go check the hundreds of out of compliance fillings. See how many years they go back Several people at public works knew of a time when the forms were "forgotten" to be filed. One of the things the "loose cannon" was showing was how long it would take to clean up the creek. So to make a short story long. Just because you just saw it. It just didn't just happen. Maybe you have gotten old enough to care.

[JET]

Who, How about an answer to my questions?

[bear]

To elected officials you may want to help ES before the movies start tonight.I hope you are paying attention its important NOW.

[JET]

Bear, Could you decode that last post.

[Lucinda]

Bear, I believe they've all got the message by now. Let's hope the midnight oil is burning at the newspapers as well.

Jet, If the press does their job we only have to wait a few days for at least part of the picture.

[JET]

Lucinda, I don't think the press can afford to print the truth. If the story comes from the police or PA they might but never on their own. Those big ads pay well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mad4eureka]

This email is going around town I got it last night. If you care about the town and your health and safety the water and the ecology and people in other towns let everyone know what they are doing. When do the plan to tell about this or is it a cover up?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: Danger

> have you heard the latest the environmental consultant was fired after the PWD took control of the sewer plant and was hauling untested, untreated highly hazardous sludge to a site across state lines. The word has it that she tried three times to stop this illegal dumping which the PWD refused to do. She contacted ADEQ twice to report the violation and finally the ADEQ compliance officer had to personally call the PWD to cease the illegal operation. The action of the PWD is highly illegal for hauling the pollution from the plant and he has no Arkansas operator license and only has a class c in Oklahoma same as a class 2 in Arkansas. No matter how you slice it or cover it up it was illegal and highly unprofessional act.

[JET]

Who was fired? Ms. Still?

[mad4eureka]

I don't know who the consultant is but Ms.Still is the only one I have heard of there. Someone should call the adeq to find out if this is true.

[WHAT!!!!]

The woman fired was still. they have to write about it to many people know.

[JET]

Who, What say ewe?

[WHAT!!!!]

baaa baaaa baaaaaaaa as he is prodded by the sheep herders hook. baaaaa wahhhhh.

[mad4eureka]

Historically, grand juries have performed two functions. They decided whether someone should be charged "indicted" for committing a crime. They also investigate criminal activity and the conduct of public affairs.

[JET]

Mad, Are you saying a Grand Jury is in the works?

[Lucinda]

The email refers to what we have been hearing all weekend, from within. The implications are astronomical.

Hopefully the city coucil will step up to the plate and recognize their responsibility to the town and to their oath of office. Hopefully the press will do their job.

If they do not call for a grand jury investigation, someone likely will. Citizens can also request an investigation.

This is too serious, too dangerous, and way to scary to gossip about online.

[Ed Barber]

Looks like all the many questions of the good citizens are being answered. It should be clear to all by now that the products from the plant are being delivered to everyones doorstep by the PWD (AKA the member known as BEAR).

[who?]

If the laws are being violated someone should be prosecuted. I don't support any of this action anymore than I support lies and false attacks. If it is handled through Tony Rogers office you can forget any action unless it will get votes. He will lie right to your face. If any of you do anything through his office. Make sure you have return reciet sighed letters. Keep a log and send a copy to nother back up sorce. Like the state police or a state representive. Make sure he is aware that you are doing the back up. ALWAYS get a return reciet.

[who?]

Originally posted by who?:
If the laws are being violated someone should be prosecuted. I don't support any of this action anymore than I support lies and false attacks. If it is handled through Tony Rogers office you can forget any action unless it will get votes. He will lie right to your face. If any of you do anything through his office. Make sure you have return reciet sighed letters. Keep a log and send a copy to another back up sorce. Like the state police or a state representive. Make sure he is aware that you are doing the back up. ALWAYS get a return reciet.

[Ed Barber]

NEWSFLASH All charges were dismissed against the two PW employees. Just the facts, please.

[sweetness&light]

From whom did this circulating email originate? Was the sender's address blocked or is it someone who has actual knowledge of all this sewer stuff? Or is it, as Lucinda said, just gossip?

[James DeVito]

Its an original e-mail. I later spoke in person with the author.

[JET]

James, What next? The times is out in the am. Think it will have any news? Lets study this for a minute. The two fall guys are free. I can only guess the finger pointer would be next in line. This might end up doing what no election could.

[bear]

Is it me or are competent women disappearing from this administration at a alarming rate. Could someone count for me.

[James DeVito]

Bear, when I run out of fingers...? I never realised that the tv show the DPW proposed back in April was going to be reality tv. Who`s writing this stuff?

[Anymouse]

Originally posted by mad4eureka:
This email is going around town I got it last night. If you care about the town and your health and safety the water and the ecology and people in other towns let everyone know what they are doing. When do the plan to tell about this or is it a cover up?

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: Danger

> have you heard the latest the environmental consultant was fired after the PWD took control of the sewer plant and was hauling untested, untreated highly hazardous sludge to a site across state lines. The word has it that she tried three times to stop this illegal dumping which the PWD refused to do. She contacted ADEQ twice to report the violation and finally the ADEQ compliance officer had to personally call the PWD to cease the illegal operation. The action of the PWD is highly illegal for hauling the pollution from the plant and he has no Arkansas operator license and only has a class c in Oklahoma same as a class 2 in Arkansas. No matter how you slice it or cover it up it was illegal and highly unprofessional act.

Now that is scary how I could see this happening and it does. Geesh I should get a crystal ball and start charging money to predict the future. In my opinion; if Blondie has any future in your city politics, she would sit down, shut up, and vote to affirm if needed to remove the PWD.

[JET]

Remove the PWD? Don't be silly. LOL

[WHAT!!!!]

She is fighting to save his job, buys loyalty with employment she covers his back while he covers hers. If he is fired he will sing.

[JET]

Well, Any news about all this?

[JET]

Well, The Times Echo has the latest. Seems like Tracy told the guys to cut the hole. While Ms. Still watched. So why where these guys fired? I've got to ask? What kind of guy is this PWD? He knew all along!

[WHAT!!!!]

You should also be asking what type of guy Tracy is and who gave him the orders to destroy the plant so a new one has to be built. You should ask if Tracy will be the man from Tulsa to build the new plant and how much money will he earn from it. You should ask if the mayors father works for Tracy or if Tracy works for the mayors father or if they are just such good buddies they like to hang out together on city projects. where tracy goes so goes dad. is it time for someone to ask about nepotism and is someone making money who should not. you should ask who gave Tracy the power to give the orders. ask who is running things Tracy or Forrest or someone else. you should ask who is in charge around here. i do not know any of these answers but someone does.

[JET]

I'm asking this, Is the PDW in charge? I would think he is? Why did he not stop this? How come Tracy is not the one in trouble? Why did Tracy let the PWD fire these two guys? I'm not on either side. I just want to know.

[Lucinda]

I’m trying to figure out what piece of the puzzle you are missing, Jet. Maybe you need some background. These ARE facts.

- Russell Clay is Mayor Harrison’s father.

- Clay worked for Ron Tracy in Oklahoma.

- Ron Tracy lives in Tulsa.

- Clay and Tracy were the only two people (other than Umland) to accuse Kirby Murray, on the record, of wrong doing. Yet they never made their case. But council stopped the work anyway. Some of that work has yet to be finished.

- Kirby resigned and took the job in Berryville stating he left because of these allegations.

- Somewhere in the middle of all this Harrison hires Tracy as the engineer for the auditorium.

- Only FOIA’s will tell what other city projects Tracy has been hired for.

- Mayor Harrison then hires a PW director from Oklahoma who is under-qualified for the job.

- Forrest, Tracy and the mayor call a public works seminar to inform council and the town they are building a new sewer plant.

- Next, the mayor says Forrest has fired the previous city engineer and replaced them with Tracy Engineering. An Oklahoma firm for an Arkansas town.

- Clay has always been spotted on city projects by half the town with Forrest and with Tracy. Clay appears to be there in an official capacity yet the question has not been asked or answered: Is Clay working for the city, is Clay working for Tracy, or is Clay just an interested bystander?

- Tracy is hired to design the new sewer plant.

- Tracy hires Marilyn Still. Still and Forrest once worked together in Oklahoma.

- Early May Forrest calls the ADEQ to inform them the trickle filter is going off-line.

- May 10th Forrest was told by city council to slow down on this new plant until back-up numbers and plans are provided to Alderman Carroll as repeatedly requested.

- May 12th Tracy orders city employees to tear apart the trickle filter. The destruction of this filter and other work mandates a new sewer plant. We can no longer go back, only forward.

- May 24th Forrest tells MJ Sell the tank was being refitted and overhauled.

- May 28th Forrest accuses Clark of “paranoia”. Fancy that.

- June 1 Forrest fires Clark and files charges of sabotage.

- June 4 the ADEQ inspects the plant because of contamination. Plant passes.

- June 10th the city council first learns of these charges by reading the Citizen.

- June 11th several council members “tour” the plant. Carroll asks if an insurance claim has been filed – answered no.

- June 14th city council convenes – no sewer discussion on camera. Carroll asks again for back-up figures on sewer plant costs and money expended to date.

- Somewhere in between the Deputy Prosecutor interviews Forrest, Still and Tracy.

- June 18th Rick Clark is cleared of charges . Still is fired by Forrest for demanding he stop illegally dumping waste across state lines in Missouri.

- Monday June 21 bids are opened for the Benton Street project and the job is awarded. Wanna guess to whom? I don’t know, no mention in the paper, but my money is on Tracy.

Today, no mention in the TE of illegal dumping. Marilyn Still is easy to reach by phone. She is credible and her claims are documented with the ADEQ.

As of today, Penny Carroll has not received the documents requested from the mayor and from Forrest and does not know HOW MUCH the plant will cost and WHERE the money will come from.

Yet, Mayor Harrison states in the TE “We have all the specifications and information we need to go ahead with the new plant....when we hire a contractor to do the work, a project manager will be supplied....”

If she has all the information Carroll has been demanding for over 2 months, why has it not been supplied to ANY council member????? And just WHO will be the contractor to build the plant?

Today, we read that no charges will be filed against Clark, but according to Hyatt “other aspects of the situation are still being examined….”

Well, I should hope so.

[Lucinda]

And Jet, there is only one "side" in this. It's the health and tax dollars and the basic rights of the residents of Eureka Springs.

[Balloonhead]

Great Observation

[WHAT!!!!]

i want our money spent in eureka springs. why is it going to some cowboy outfit from Oklahoma. The auditorium went to Missouri and now 4 times that amount is going out of state. our city deposits are going to Rogers. Does the mayor hate us?

[JET]

Lucinda, Thanks for the effort you put into the timeline. Something just stinks with all this. The one thing I don't understand is this. How come the PWD is still working for the city? This is nothing personal with him. Don't know him.

[oldwizard]

Originally posted by oldwizard,posted 06-17-2004 11:39 PM on this very thread:
Who/Royal,

When you stated above "The presentation they ripped apart said the people at public works would do the project in house. I'm sure they would have to hire more people and god forbid pay them a decent wage. That is what the PWD would like to do.".

Isn't that exactly what Kirby drew so much flack for, hiring more people and paying a decent wage to do projects in house and save the city money?

It realy is who you know and not what you know in Eureka Springs, isn't it who?

Glenn Strange

If you like what you have been getting, keep doing what you have been doing.



Side, side everyone has a Side, it matters not which side, or even any side! When public funds are being misused sides do not matter, a crime is a crime. A Clone is a clone even in a dress!

Who/Royal it seems you have opted out of another conversation with no answer to my original question.

My next question... Where are the peoples elected representatives on this issue?

It seems our previous mayor lost council support at about this same time in his administration, council members your phones should be ringing by now!

Being able to take apart and reassemble a jig saw puzzle is no more qualification than being able to draw same! Such a lovely Queen.

Glenn Strange


IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN GETTING, KEEP DOING WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING!

[mufti]

Ye gods, what a spiteful little town.

[Ed Barber]

Lucinda has presented a good time line. Unfortunately, there are other items that also occurred. Such as: (1) What happened to the $400,000 allocated for a new digester? The one now at the plant is virtually unworkable. (2) Why was $60,000 spent on used equipment without going out for bids?

There are other problems with the plant. Sombody is directly responsible. So a third question arrises. Why is he not terminated for cause?

[This message has been edited by Ed Barber (edited 06-22-2004).]

[JET]

Ed, This is the question i've been asking for weeks. When will we get the answer?

[Lucinda]

Jet, as long as people only vent here instead of contacting their councilmen, speaking out at the public forum next Monday night, and or writing letters to the editors, etc - the answer could be "never".

The mayor has the sole authority to hire or fire department heads, unless the council steps up to the plate. The guy hasn't been terminated yet because the Mayor doesn't want to.

Until the false claims of sabotage, the public dirtying of innocent reputations, and the claims of illegal dumping, I was of a mind to give the guy a chance to prove himself. IMO, he blew that chance.

[Lucinda]

Correction: Marilyn Still apparently never worked with Forrest and barely knew him before coming to ES. Forrest worked for Still's husband years ago. Forrest asked both to come to ES to help with plant design.

From an email this morning:

Marilyn only took this job because she loves ES and knew you needed her expertise.

The TE claims that she got fired for watching the wall being tore out but (at that time) she was treating water and installing a belt press. She was fired for reporting the illegal actions of forrest.....after he was caught polluting the earth and violating enviromental regulations.

James met with Marilyn on Saturday before she left town. He feels she is "stand-up" and it seems we may have lost the one person who knows the most about designing this new plant. And obviously someone with the character to back up her convictions.

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 06-23-2004).]

[JET]

Where will all this end? I know this will cost the city plenty.

[Joe Zickmund]

How can it end? We have a dentist performing heart surgery. Get the fibrillator out of the closet. I think we will need it.

[JET]

Joe, I hope those CDs are making some big bucks. The guys that where fired? I'm sure some money will be due them.

[sweetness&light]

Sounds like Eureka is up s**t creek without a paddle.

[JET]

S and L. It's true. It does run downhill. Or downstream.

[Becky Davis]

Well, from what you guys have said, it looks like those fired employees have a real good chance of winning a lawsuit against the city. Not only them, but anyone damaged health wise from that dirty water.

[JET]

Becky, Kenny Elser could win this case. Tomorrow the Citzen will have the whole hog story. Yea. Sure. Wanna Bet. The wanna be paper of record.

[carolyn]

i guess i am really in the dark on this...what is it we are waiting to hear, and what is it we are to talk to our council folks about...

just from what i have read in this thread and what i have read in the papers, we tore apart a non functioning tank...

we spent alot of money in previous years on lots of equipment that was never put on line or was jerrry rigged to preform a less than perfect function, and we now have even less function than before, but lots of equipment that is not usable and not used...

in my usual cynical nature, what i said above would be enough, but truly, i do not understand any of this...

we are not now functioning??

where is our waste going??>?

what about all the equipment we have there...is it usable, can it be hooked up...is it useless???

i am not even talking about contracts or reputations...i am asking about the operation of the plant...who are we polluting...

why did we buy equipment that is not used, and can we use it???


not about an individual or many, but who can answer the broader questions i have.............................................. .................................................. ....

[Bzarsatori]

Read tonight's Citizen. There iz much more to the story.

Lucinda and Marilyn Still have a lot in common. They, repeatedly, try to assure you what to think while they are stabbing you in the back. Lucinda's versions of the story are az credible az her new friend Marilyn's. It iz amazing how they flock together, once they are 'outed'

[oldwizard]

Beau, BOE, Bzarsatori, Robert or whatever you are calling yourself today,


Have either Lucinda or Marilyn pled guilty to felony charges, talk about self outing, and it was the peoples money too! A clone is a clone.

Glenn Strange

IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN GETTING KEEP DOING WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING!

[Ed Barber]

For Carolyn and others: Borrowing a phrase from politics "It's the engineering, stupid." The problems with ES infrastructure can not be solved by Politics, but could be by politicians. The answer is to employ competant people with verifiable credentials. And, yes, there are such people. Throwing good money after bad only turns the "good money" bad.

Wishful thinking and bandaids cannot make a 50's plant operate properly in the 21'st century. I wish ES would put aside the petty squables and face up to the required ENGINEERING solutions. This would prove less costly in the long term.

On second reflection, I change this wish to a prayer. Unfortunately, I probably don't have a.....

[James DeVito]

Marylin Still was touted by Forrest as the woman who wrote the book when it comes to water quality. She was hired by Tracy Engineering because of her qualifications. Now she is discredited in Beau`s mind because of an article in the Citizen. Even Beau would agree that this situation might have been avoided if this had not been handled as the mayors personal project. We`re still waiting on accounting from the auditorium project.

[bear]

Originally posted by James DeVito:
Marylin Still was touted by Forrest as the woman who wrote the book when it comes to water quality. She was hired by Tracy Engineering because of her qualifications. Now she is discredited in Beau`s mind because of an article in the Citizen. Even Beau would agree that this situation might have been avoided if this had not been handled as the mayors personal project. We`re still waiting on accounting from the auditorium project.

James, Marilyn did not write the book but she read it thats more than what i can say for the PWD. On top of that she understands it.

[Lucinda]

Well, what a piece of journalism Bill. Good reporting is supposed to make the reader think, to draw their own conclusions based upon facts - not to confuse the reader to the point they don’t know who or what to believe.

Carolyn asked the most intelligent and million dollar question. The MAIN question you should have answered for the readers BILL. Where do we stand with the sewer plant? What is the current state, where are the problems, what is the solution and HOW are we going to PAY for it? Instead we get petty bickering and an article posturing to discredit one and cover the asses of others.

Marilyn Still has made every statement and claim in writing. Where is a written statement from Tracy, Forrest and Mayor Harrison? It is far easier to keep changing your story if you don’t commit it to paper.

Beau, you contribute nothing to this conversation. No content, no information, no position, nada. As former mayor, YOU had a hand in all of this. As current mayoral advisor you HAVE a hand in this. Try giving constructive information for a change.

Ed said it best.....Those of you manipulating this entire affair for your own personal gain beware. If you keep up this dishonest and petty “he did it, she did it” BS to cover your own backs you’ll force a situation where the ADEQ has no choice but to come in and FIX this for us. At THEIR price tag, not ours.

What a three ring circus and the clowns are running the show.

[Lucinda]

And let's not forget the tidbit in the Citizen explaining the cozy relationships between players. Interesting you finally found it necessary to "report" on Bill.

They've made it very clear the mayor's father works for the city's "new" engineering firm, Ron Tracy. "He's been on my payroll as needed for six to eight years" said Tracy.

Tracy worked on the city auditorium. Did Clay? How much did he earn? We won’t know if or how much because that information is buried in a private record – Tracy’s invoice.

Tracy is designing the sewer plant. How much has Clay earned from that? Again, buried in an invoice.

Recap: Tracy and Clay testify against Murray. Murray quits and the mayor just happens to "find" someone from Oklahoma all on her own. The new PWD lacks the qualifications to replace Murray, but apparently amenable enough to fire the old engineering firm and then hire the mayor's father's employer. How convenient.

I realize no one really wants to touch this one with a 10 foot pole. It’s too, well icky. But as another NOT SO SUBTLE reminder to city council: YOU were elected to run this town - to be the custodians of our money and our property. Try it sometime.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 06-24-2004).]

[JET]

Thanks Lucinda, I was thinking maybe I should just delete this thread. After reading the Citizen, More confused than ever. What a waste of ink. I'm glad it's free. What's going on here.

[Lucinda]

Jet, this is your thread to delete if you want. I hope you don't.

I can only speculate what's going on here. I wish I knew for sure.

I'm most interested in the main question. Where does the sewer plant stand and how much will it cost us to fix?

The agenda for Monday's city council has not been published on the website but I understand another "executive session" is scheduled. Let's hope something decisive happens there.

[Balloonhead]

Just a quick question for all of you. What educational training does the mayor have? Is her degree in Economics, Political Science, Management, does anyone know? Has she had experience running a business or governmental organization? A great leader is a good deligator, seems likes shes deligating to benefit her friends and family, where I come from we call this corruption. I support our leaders whether I agree with them or not, unless they steal from those they are working for(i.e. Bush and Haliburton, Harrison and Tracy, Forrest and the van incident--see Probable Cause posting). With our communitys gereral hatred of Bush it's kinda funny our local politics are the same. The van incident should be grounds for Robert's dismissal, just as Haliburton should be Bush's demise.

[Ed Barber]

Just read the Times Echo. Does this mean that the "contractor" to install the new sewer plant will be selected by Tracy Engineering without bid and without oversight by anyone from the city? Does the Council get to rubber stamp this? Sounds like a felony HAS been comitted!

Some citizen (or group of citizens) ought to sue the City to force legal oversight. No matter how qualified, no Engineering firm has the authority to spend the peoples money without proper approval. I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like Arkansas law is being broken if the answers are as reported in the paper.

[Joe Zickmund]

I would suggest that when reading the Lovely County Enquirer tabloid remember that it is just that. They are not interested in any facts that might undermine their revenue stream. A print media vehicle designed to protect and promote a revenue stream derived from the businesses and taxpayers of the county. It is their lack of journalistic skills that will prevent this tabloid from becoming a paper of record. They will NEVER get the required subscription base needed to accomplish that goal because people will not pay for the trash they print.

[Lucinda]

This may delight some of you. I'm done with this for awhile - I have a life to manage.

I am tired of being one of the very few people who will place themselves on the line, under our own names, to call the plays and games as each maneuver is forced upon the people who live here.

The biggest reason your city council is ineffective is because they cannot speak with one-another outside of the council table and are forced to rely upon THE MAYOR for their information. If any of you would bother to talk to these people you would find they are ALL given DIFFERENT information to work with. That is intentionally creating chaos and chaos is ruling the day here.

Ed is right. It is time for citizens to act. But if you think it will be any of us, think again. We ARE NOT going to carry this banner just to be beat to death as a result.

It is time for you WHIMPS, you upstanding city leaders, you pillars of the community, you bastions of civility, to get off your collective BUTTS and act for yourself. If you are frightened by all this, if you are suffering as a result, FIX IT YOURSELF.

[Heretic]

Well, at least the trolleys still run and the fire department is on duty. I guess I have to scratch toilets flushing from my "Everything is Okay" list. You've done your best, Lucinda. You can be proud. It will be sorted out, no doubt about it. When? Who knows? We're on Ozark Standard Time here.

[Becky Davis]

Well Jet, You don't start a thread very often. Really don't post a lot. But, when you do, it's a doozie.
What a mess!!

[JET]

Thanks Becky. Lucinda thank you too!!! I only wanted to know about the hole in the wall. After all these posts and the newsless papers. I think I know less now than when this started. I do know someone needs fired, jailed or both. I'm not sure who that person is. If the sewer plant damage? Had been two months ago? Hindsight is better now. The last election would have been different. I'm not sure about Mr. Tracy but I know Mr. Clay well. I just don't think he would have any part of anything underhanded.

[Becky Davis]

I know...oh well. If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

[gump]

Have you read perfect mountain. Its Great

[bear]

Thank you Lucinda you are a credible lady no matter what anyone else thinks. Hopefully people will get the full picture of what is being done to ES by the current admin. I know Marilyn has more love for ES than anyone. You have done your best and we appreciate it. The mountain will be cleaned again is our hope.

[Becky Davis]

I did. It's a terrific story.

[Becky Davis]

Did the Citizen tell the truth? If they ever get around to putting it online, I will read it. Yet, I will have no way of knowing if it is the full story.

[JET]

Becky the times has some truth but the story just rambles.
Who, Just where are you? Things not going to suit?

[sweetness&light]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it very interesting the The Morning News or Demo Gaz has not come into town for more fun interviews on the latest weirdness of Eureka? They were here for Beau, the special election...guess raw sewage isn't their bag.

[Becky Davis]

Has anybody contacted them?

[JET]

How the Arkansas State Police major crime unit? After all the PWD is on record with a millon dollar damage report.

[smileyface]

Is that you Grandpa Gummi Bear!!!!

[bear]

I guess Mr. King wont post it online because he wrote a unfair article that is confusing from what I hear and covers the butts of the people who should be fired or removed from office. I know never trust a reporter who only knows one side of the story the side that feeds him.

[Becky Davis]

Oh...I think they are just slow trying to get caught up or something.

[James DeVito]

I think they are slow on the uptake, and can`t see past their own prejudices.

[Sasquitch]

What a tangled web we weave... Perfect mountain my azz. How's that girlfriend?

[Ed Barber]

$120,000 a year to do what James (Kirby's former assistant) would have done for less than half of that! The then current crew had the credentials and talent. Even today, talented and licenced people would accept the Public Works direction for much less than the Mayor might think. Just get rid of this entire gang of incompetants, crooks, and troublemakers.

Solutions are possible. I urge the Mayor and Council to sieze them.

[Sasquitch]

I just ordered my "Michael Moore is Fat," t-shirt. If anyone else wants one they're at glennbeck.com.

[Hoochiesmomma]

Sasquitch darling......you need a vacation. He's not fat, just big boned!

[Sasquitch]

You're right I do need a vacation. But, Michael Moore is a big BONEHEAD.

[James DeVito]

Michael Moore is my Patrick Henry.

[JET]

Saw a huge crane being unloaded at the plant this am. I guess the beat goes on and on and on.

[who?]

Originally posted by Lucinda:
Jet, this is your thread to delete if you want. I hope you don't.

I can only speculate what's going on here. I wish I knew for sure.

I'm most interested in the main question. Where does the sewer plant stand and how much will it cost us to fix?

The agenda for Monday's city council has not been published on the website but I understand another "executive session" is scheduled. Let's hope something decisive happens there.

Like exposing one of you council buddies? The one that moved out of her district and didn't tell anybody?

[who?]

Originally posted by carolyn:
i guess i am really in the dark on this...what is it we are waiting to hear, and what is it we are to talk to our council folks about...

just from what i have read in this thread and what i have read in the papers, we tore apart a non functioning tank...

we spent alot of money in previous years on lots of equipment that was never put on line or was jerrry rigged to preform a less than perfect function, and we now have even less function than before, but lots of equipment that is not usable and not used...

in my usual cynical nature, what i said above would be enough, but truly, i do not understand any of this...

we are not now functioning??

where is our waste going??>?

what about all the equipment we have there...is it usable, can it be hooked up...is it useless???

i am not even talking about contracts or reputations...i am asking about the operation of the plant...who are we polluting...

why did we buy equipment that is not used, and can we use it???


not about an individual or many, but who can answer the broader questions i have.............................................. .................................................. ....

You are catching on but it doesn't make the mayor look bad To bad it is true and how much previous councils wasted.

It dosen't fit their campaign strategy.

[Lucinda]

PMilam suggested I talk less and listen more.

OvrtheRiver suggested I talk less with more content.

I appreciate both suggestions and have followed their advice. Instead of rambling online I’ve been listening to more people who were actually THERE.

Kirby Murray and Kim Dickens were in the process of gathering paperwork to bring a lawsuit against the old engineering firm when Kim Dickens was fired. The past mayor and this current mayor are/were aware of Dickens and Murray’s claim and urging to sue.

The firm has insurance.

The claim of damages is significant.

The new ‘team’ at the plant made the claims of wrongdoing public.

Yet Mayor Harrison did not and will not pursue a lawsuit against McLlend.

Instead we have Sewergate.

Why?

[Lucinda]

Who, as usual, you haven't a clue what you are talking about.

[JET]

Lucinda, Maybe the city council should follow up on this and have Time Weaver file the suit. The be honest. The mayor can't stop them. Only if the council lets her. Sewergate? LOL. Another Royal Flush.

[becsflowers]

So, what's happening NOW?
Cousin Eddy come back from Kansas to help Clark fix the terd plant? Aunt Edna dead and strapped to the top of the crumbled pitt?
Stay tuned, same time, same channel. DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL!
Lucinda, you post whatever you want. You are the only one I have been able to understand about any of this mess.

[who?]

Well since you know it all. Why was Kim Dickens and Kirby preparing a law suit? Where was the city attorney?
The attorney would tell what to get to gather and how to proceed. When did the last council vote to proceed with a law suit? Who gave her the authority?

[JET]

Who never answers questions. Only spins.

[who?]

Jet post your question again. It appeared that you were answered.

[Whistle]

Answer to how the Mayor found Robert Forrest: Mr. Clay has an old friend in ?Turley? Oklahoma recommended Forrest. Forrest's employer (the water district) was in the process of "getting rid of" Forrest and he was threatening legal action.

In short, Turley shoved their problem into Eureka Springs lap.

[sweetness&light]

(pig slowly shaking golden curls from side to side as she says http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif Yew jes gotta luv this town.

--------------------
Ya know how you learn something new everyday? Well, my lesson is that when I typed a colon after 'says', and then a parenthesis...I got a smiley face! Totally unintentional, I swear, but it fits so what the hay.

[This message has been edited by sweetness&light (edited 06-28-2004).]

[soulself]

Who?
Why?
Why do you ask so many questions, but then never believe anything someone tells you?
Unless of course, it is something that you and your friends (whoever they are) want to hear. If it is something you want to hear, weather it is true or not, there seems to be no problem. Then you totally understand. Otherwise you need more proof and evidence. Oh! but only the proof that has been aproved by your handelers? I see. Nevermind. Forget I metioned it.

[JET]

Who, I can't figure this one out. My question. If the damage at the plant was not ordered? How come the person doing it was not arrested. Two guys lost their jobs for doing what they where told. I hate to say this, someone LIED. BTW. More of the plant is being torn down today. How many will get sent home for this? Does the PWD know about this?

[bear]

Originally posted by JET:
Who, I can't figure this one out. My question. If the damage at the plant was not ordered? How come the person doing it was not arrested. Two guys lost their jobs for doing what they where told. I hate to say this, someone LIED. BTW. More of the plant is being torn down today. How many will get sent home for this? Does the PWD know about this?
FYI Jet Mr. Byrum PE with ADEQ should be the one to approve the work in writing.Something the PWD doesnt understand. The trickling filter was only to bee cleaned not torn apart.

[who?]

Jet Then the answer is trust the police and the ADEQ.
I don't make the rules on what was criminal or how or if it is covered up. I believe the hole was made for access to clean up the tank. I believe Tracy has been around long enough as a engineer to know the best approach to a specific task. Like him or not his reputation will be something he needs when he moves on. Eureka is not the end of these people work life. They are not going to destroy themselves for any politics
The piping that was destroyed would not be a huge expense if it had to be replaced.
The hole would be a minor fix. The problem is getting to who gave the order to get rid of the media. Everyone involved on all sides should know the expense. I think they may have been able to be resold. I believe it was a major screw up or a clever setup
As far as the guys losing their jobs. I hope they are cleared and rehired when things calm down. I have a gut feeling it was a setup. When reading all the information I see to much documentation sent to may people. Sometime over documentation stands out. Somewhere I think I saw something like 543 gallons of untreated waste being dumped and such . Thousand of gallons get dumped when we have a huge rain.It is usually handled with a non compliance report. to the ADEQ and we have hundreds of them.
Paper trails are the key. Someone knowing how to leave a good one can win most cases. The truth may be told but the paper will be believed. A hint of the truth can some how make it look believable in print. So back to the blame. Lets hope the investigators sees the truth . I would be in favor of someone independent with ties to no one. I would favor the state police working with the ADEQ First to accurately report if we have a treatment problem. Get that fixed. Then sort the rest. This is a case no matter who you support we all loose.

[gump]

DUH 5400 gallons of untreated untested sludge that is intentionally removed and dumped on the face of the earth is a lot different than a heavy rain which dilutes the plant considerably and can not be humanly controlled in the old undersized treatment plant.I know lots of people that keep detailed notes and documentation like doctors, lawyers , engineers and other professionals.

[James DeVito]

There are not "hundreds" of non compiance reports. More spin.

[Anymouse]

How does one convene a grand jury? Time for Blondie to answer for her actions!

[JET]

Who and Bear. Thanks for your answers. Did anything happen last night at the meeting? Besides the same-o-same-o? I'm not what the city is getting at the plant but its getting it anyway. BTW, I really think most of us are on the same side. The City of Eureka Springs and it's citizens.

[Lucinda]

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Who.....we will never get to the truth or the bottom of this story without an independent outside investigation.

The mayor dished up enough Whoppers last night you'd think it was Burger King.

[JET]

Lucina, Did they address the PDW at the meeting?

[Lucinda]

Jet, I missed 1/2 of the sewer discussion because the first part made me so sick and so angry I had to leave.

Forrest remains employed. The sewer plant continues. The mayor made it very clear that SHE was in charge and that the city council should BACK OFF.

Still no answers: Is it safe, how much will it cost, and where is the money coming from?

We have a housewife building us a new sewer system, but never fear, Daddy's on the job.

[JET]

Does the city have any plans for this new plant? If so, Where did the plans come from? Are they state approved? Are they funded? How did they get approved? If the city council want too? Big question. They can stop this in its tracks.

[Lucinda]

Ed Barber, you'll get a kick out of this one.

Alderman Carroll debated the mayor over her repeated statement that the ADEQ was "making" us build a new plant.

Carroll asked to see the consent order. The mayor handed her a 2 line letter from Mark Owen of the ADEQ stating something to the effect of "we approve your request"...to build a new sewer plant.

Carroll said "this is NOT a consent order" but the mayor kept insisting it WAS. Either the mayor thinks everyone is stupid or she is.

[Lucinda]

Jet, the mayor stated in the papers that the plans and specifications were completed. Marilyn Still was the designer and when fired said they were only 50% complete.

Who is the qualified, licensed engineer to finish the plans? Tracy?

Since they stalled and stalled on Carroll's request for the underlying estimate to support the 2 million dollar ballpare - my guess is they STILL don't know how much it will cost.

This city council will not stop ANYTHING. If people don't want to wake up in 6 months to an escalated sewer bill and word of 5 million spent on this plant, someone better act. It won't be your elected officials. 2 councilwomen cannot fight this on their own.

[JET]

Well, After reading the times? LOL. I still don't have a clue as to what's up. It would seem the city is building a sewer plant with no plans. It's a kinda as we go deal. No estimate of costs. I've gotta ask? What's the hell is going on? Where is this money coming from? It seems only one council person cares. I hope this thing is pulled off and it works. It's our money.

[gump]

http://www.hermanos.org/nonviolence/dictodem.html
Food for thought er er or sewercide

[carolyn]

well, i missed the first half of the meeting...saw citizen comments and bits thereafter...

there will be a meeting , i think july 19th...may be wrong...probably am wrong...at 7:30...anyway after the parks meeting for citizens to get questions answered.

the mayors dad is no longer employed by tracy, in fact he is unemployed

the sewage flows through to the area below the dam at lake leather wood....it does not effect our drinking water, but it obviously effects someone's....

the council does not want to micromanage positions that we have engineers to understand...the council does not want to have no answers for citizens with questions...so the meeting...i think it is to get council members informed as to what is going on...and let citizens hear the same info...don't think it is for citizen input...

that is what i got out of what part of the meeting i listened to...

all this bullness about he said she said is not helping...a conspiricy is not always happening...simple clear answers about where our sewage is going, how can we fix it so we do not undermine the next seven generations, and does the bond issue cover this cost might though be helpful...

it is amazing to me that something this dramatic can wait even a furthur two weeks before council can answer the citizens...what in the world is happening to our sewage...who are we polluting...

that seems a simple question...can anyone answer this for me?

[JET]

Lots of luck. I've asking for weeks. Nothing. The only thing I know for sure? We are getting a new sewer plant.

[who?]

Originally posted by Lucinda:
Ed Barber, you'll get a kick out of this one.

Alderman Carroll debated the mayor over her repeated statement that the ADEQ was "making" us build a new plant.

Carroll asked to see the consent order. The mayor handed her a 2 line letter from Mark Owen of the ADEQ stating something to the effect of "we approve your request"...to build a new sewer plant.

Carroll said "this is NOT a consent order" but the mayor kept insisting it WAS. Either the mayor thinks everyone is stupid or she is.

You are making a good point. If you are saying the town is not being required to do this. Please join us in a investigation. The past councils tried to get a multi million tax to build a new plant. Are you now saying it was just for the developers and their future projects?

[becauseican]

Kathy already spent $60,000.00 on our sewer
system without putting it out to bid. She tried to blame Marylyn Still and Diane Murphy
when she was questioned and the council meeting. The same thing that happen with the
Auditorium is going to happen here. She is going to spend the money without asking or letting anyone know how she is spending it.
The Council and the Community allowed Kathy to be the dictator...now we have to live with it.

[Lucinda]

Who, let me try to outline this again. I guess I haven't been clear in the past:

I am saying that in 1998 the VOTERS turned down a new sewer plant.

Those past city council's had NO CHOICE but to repair an aging, decrepit plant.

NOW in 2004 the mayor is building a new sewer plant - without citizen approval, without council approval, and by hiring the family friend to design and construct the plant. IF the bids come out and prove the plant will cost MUCH MORE than 2 million, our STELLAR Public Works Director will then claim HE can do the same work IN HOUSE for less money.

I do not know WHY the mayor has decided to travel this VERY RISKY road, all by herself and bucking council every step of the way. It seems like an ENORMOUS personal liablity to me. But she is.

WE HAD A FUNCTIONING SEWER PLANT! Old, beat-up and needing replacement, YES, but if a new plant is needed it should have gone through the PROPER CHANNELS. No slipped by under the noses of citizens and council alike.

We now MUST build an SBR plant, there is little chance of going back. The council has now given the mayor 2 more weeks to continue desconstructing the plant before their most basic questions are even answered. Such as HOW MUCH WILL IT COST and WHERE IS THE MONEY COMING FROM?????

The problem with EUREKA POLITICS is I DON'T KNOW the answer to your last question: "Did the last proposition and this current proposition exist only to make money for the contractors who will do the work". WHO KNOWS!

---------------------------------------

Here is a little reading material for you.

This link from the city of Claremore Oklahoma requesting bids for engineers to design and implement the sewer system from a trickle filter to an SBR. EXACTLY what we are trying to do.

However, Claremore is requesting bids - In ES, we just hand it off to a family friend.

http://www.claremorecity.com/misc_files/RFP-SOQ_for_WWTP_3-30-041.pdf

And this is an example of a "consent order". It is a lengthy legal document, NOT a letter from the ADEQ stating "yeah, go ahead and build yourselves a new sewer plant."

http://www.deq.state.mi.us/documents/deq-aqd-air-enf-aspen.co.pdf

A consent order is the last step to give the municipality the chance to fix their problems themselves. If they will not or cannot, then the ADEQ comes in and fixes it for you - and then hands you the bill.

EUREKA SPRINGS WAS NOT AND IS NOT UNDER A CONSENT ORDER. Only Forrest, Harrison, Tracy and Clay KNOW if the desconstruction they wrecked on the plant will eventually REQUIRE a consent order.

[Lucinda]

And Who, I hope you are serious about calling for an investigation. Someone must or this will continue. And I agree, it needs to be WAY outside our cozy relationships with good old boy city attorney's and PA's.

I cannot get involved in the investigation - I've spent too much time on city politics as is and need to focus on my own life.

But, here are a few suggestions you might want to consider:

FOIA city hall for all documentation that states we are under ADEQ orders to build a new plant. They won't exist but try anyway.

Then try an FOIA with ADEQ for all documentation and coorespondence sent to ANYONE in ES for the past 2 years. Murray, Satori, Harrison, Forrest, Still, Murphy, everyone.

I understand that when Ed Larson was building something for parks, he was subjected to FOIA's for all costs and invoices, BECAUSE it was a city project.

Use the same argument with Tracy Engineering and request every scrap of paper backup for anything spent on city projects.

And, I'd FOIA the mayor and Forrest for EXACTLY what money is left in the 2000 and 2002 bond issues and exactly what work must be completed from the original orders and at what cost, LEAVING the bottom line estimate of what funds she plans to transer (or HAS) to the sewer project.

Penny Carroll asked Tim Weaver to give her a written opinion of the legality of transfering bond money to a new project. After repeated emails to Weaver, he finally gave her a vague, nonsensical VERBAL answer just before the last council meeting.

FOIA WEAVER'S legal opinion of transfering bond money to a new purpose. IN WRITING. (Weaver you are a baised smuck.)

FOIA the mayor and ask who is in charge of the sewer plant, what the chain of command is and where the buck stops. Since Marilyn Still WAS the ONLY qualified person to engineer a new plant, ask WHO is going to finish the work - the design and proposal to pass ADEQ approvals.

Since we all know that at least $100,000+
has already been spent on deconstructing the old plant to make way for a new one, FOIA the mayor for a written, EXACT, line-by-line, itemized detail of every expense to-date and WHERE THE MONEY CAME FROM!

Find a good attorney, OUT SIDE OF THIS COMMUNITY, to represent your group.

That's a start.

[Lucinda]

Actually, skip over Weaver altoghter and try to get the Attny. General's opinion. The BS Weaver tried to float by Carroll and DeVito isn't worth your bother or your time.

[Lucinda]

And while WHO is busy pursuing legal channels, someone might want to consider passing around a petition to GIVE THE VOTERS a SAY over what is going on at the plant.

Pass around a petition and collect enough signatures to PAUSE the construction until EVERY taxpayer is given answers to the questions

IS IT SAFE, ARE WE SAFE,

HOW MUCH WILL IT COST,

WHERE WILL THE MONEY COME FROM?

And then sit back and wait for the Mayor to tell you it CAN'T be paused or halted and WHY.

[becauseican]

Lucinda,
I already have some questions into the Attorney. Generals’ office.
But I’m sure I will get the same answer I always get contact our
Local Prosecuting Attorney.
Right!

[Lucinda]

T, then do what Who suggested. Put the questions in writing, address it to Tony Rogers, and send it certified mail, return reciept requested. If he does not answer the questions, then contact the attorney general with a complaint against Rogers and a request for the answers. If he does, post them here http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif

[JET]

Just remember. All the guys are on the same team. Don't foget. They may cuss and fight but the checks come from the same place. After all, The State is the State.

[WHAT!!!!]

the mayor was the cause for the last special election and if we are getting screwed again she will cost us another one. it cost 2300 last time but is not much money as the mayor plays house with our millions. please someone start a petition.

[JET]

What!!! Any bets on how the another election would turn out now?