Bullied or abused at Clear Spring School? [Archive]

snowdiva

03-19-2003, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by sweetness&light:
I'm wondering why are they unable to speak for themselves? I've only ever heard rave reviews for the staff and I understand they do not tolerate trouble makers there who disrupt the education of the students. Usually, if there's any hint of negativity anywhere, anytime, anyhow around here...it bubbles to the top.

Yes, Clear Springs School is a fine school with caring teachers that are more than willing to go that extra mile for their student.....BUT....I saw on a few occasions, that their strong point was NOT in punishing the trouble makers. They would let the problem go on for too long, when it was obvious that their "little talk with Mr. trouble maker" was not working. That is the only thing I can think of that bothered me a bit. As I said before, it is a great school to go for a education. That school lets the child be themself, even if that is different than the so-called "norm".

NewtoTown

03-19-2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by snowdiva:
I saw on a few occasions, that their strong point was NOT in punishing the trouble makers. They would let the problem go on for too long, when it was obvious that their "little talk with Mr. trouble maker" was not working.

This was a big part of the problem that we experienced. Allowing trouble to continue was detrimental to the experiences of others who werent causing trouble. Reminds me of the case I heard of recently in NYC where somebody was being assaulted in a subway with many bystanders and nobody helped. There is a book called "The Bully, the Bullied, and the Bystander" by Barbara Coloroso that I would recommend to anybody associated with Clear Spring or considering association. While many have wonderful experiences there, others have needed sparring gear. Bullying is a big problem in our world today, and it doesnt merely involve children. It impacts us all.

NewtoTown

03-22-2003, 11:49 AM

Seems to me what is going on locally is similar to the global. Think globally, act locally!

PenDragon

03-22-2003, 01:13 PM

New,

We have our child in Clear Springs because we need her to be in an environment where she will not be discriminated against because of who she is or where she comes from. Clear Springs was the only choice for us. We cannot trust a religious based school, nor the public school to offer our child that kind of respect or nurturing environment. We cannot trust the administration, teachers or parents of other children to allow her that kind of nonjudgmental, nurturing environment in a public or religious based school.

I also want my child to have the opportunity to make up her own mind about what she believes or does not believe. It is my belief that CSS offers the kind of environment that fosters the child's unique ability to think for herself. I also do not want done to my child what was done to me and be FORCED to learn. I want my child to WANT to learn. I want her natural curiosity encouraged and fostered. I don't want her to hate school as I did. I hated school all the way until high school where I was then given some freedom to learn about things that naturally interested me. And btw, I went from having a 2.9 average to a 4.0 average once I was given that freedom. I found out I was not stupid as most of my teachers had lead me to believe prior to that.

I want my child to be in a place that nurtures her self esteem. CSS is the only choice I see that offers that type of nurturing. No school is perfect, nor is every teacher or administration faultless or beyond reproach occasionally. CSS is not perfect and it never will be, but for me, it is better than any other learning environment I have researched here in town.

I know that you are doing what you feel is best for your children. I just feel that you may be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire in ways that no one can foretell. We all do what we think will hopefully be in the best interest of our children in the long run. My hope for you and your children is that you have made the best decision for them and for you.

Good luck and blessings to you and your family.

Heretic

03-22-2003, 02:17 PM

New,
You know what they say, "Kids are like farts. You can only stand your own."

NewtoTown

03-22-2003, 04:10 PM

Pen Dragon, I hear you and respect you and am with you, all except for the part about jumping from the frying pan into the fire. We are out of the frying pan and we are now healing and soothing our hearts and souls. I want the same thing for my kids that you want for yours, and I would guess that most parents want for their kids. I will go to any lengths to help my kids have that type of learning experience. And Heretic, I loved the analogy! Enjoy this beautiful day folks and blessed be!

EurekaRebel

03-22-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by PenDragon:
We have our child in Clear Springs because we need her to be in an environment where she will not be discriminated against because of who she is or where she comes from. Clear Springs was the only choice for us. We cannot trust a religious based school to offer our child that kind of respect or nurturing environment.

PenDragon,

Why do you think your child would be discriminated against in ANY school environment? The public school has Hispanics, Africians, Chinese, and Iranian
kids that attend (that I personally know of), and probably more nationalities besides. Also
kids with lesbian parents. Far as I know, none of those kids have been discriminated against because of who they are. Eureka is a very accepting and tolerate community, and I can't imagine discrimination here.

PenDragon

03-22-2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by EurekaRebel:

Far as I know, none of those kids have been discriminated against because of who they are. Eureka is a very accepting and tolerate community, and I can't imagine discrimination here.

I would like to believe that everyone in Eureka who has children of school age is tolerant and accepting, but I do not believe it is so. There are still people here who live in the self imposed darkness and fear that ignorance of others different from themselves perpetuates. (and I do not lable people ignorant as an insult but as an objective observation of humans who have not yet learned any different from what they have been taught)

Unfortunately one person raising even one child to be intolarant and bigoted is more of a risk than I want to take exposing my child to at school. I want at all costs to minimize that risk.

I raised a mixed race child and watched helplessly the cruelity she endured on the playground. And from other children of color too. That probably broke my heart worse than anything knowing that these very children who themselves had their own discrimination issues chose to hurl racial epithets at my child.

I hate to sound paranoid, but I have experienced too much of my own discrimination in my own life time to trust people and their real feelings deep down inside. Tolerance and unconditional acceptance of whom you are, are two different things. My experience of people who are tolerant is that they are not always accepting. Think of me as being a seasoned parent who is wary of another's intentions when it comes to my children.

I do not trust public schools to be able to enforce my child's safety on the playground from that one possible intolerantly raised child. I also do not want someone else teaching my child their religious doctrines, so that leaves me with private non-religious schools as my choice.

CSS not only met the above criteria, it turned out to have the type of learning environment I wanted my child in too. It was a win/win for us when chosing a school.

Obviously things are not so bad here that I am thinking of leaving anytime soon (I was planning on growing old and finishing out the rest of my life here if at all possible http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ). I purposely chose to move to Eureka because things are not that bad here. It could be a lot worse. Trust me...

PenDragon

03-22-2003, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by NewtoTown:

I hear you and respect you and am with you, all except for the part about jumping from the frying pan into the fire. We are out of the frying pan and we are now healing and soothing our hearts and souls.

New, I truly trust that you have made the correct and best decision for you and your family. (you will always know when it feels right in your heart) May the healing continue and may the universe continue to bless you greatly!

2100

03-22-2003, 10:48 PM

Dear PenDragon: Please understand that I am not admonishing your choice of schools or am in any way denigrating Clear Springs School. It is a good school. But I must stand up on behalf of our public school. It is an EXCELLENT school, with kind, wonderful caring teachers, (dare I say nurturing?) supportive staff and volunteers, and I can't remember when last I heard any rumblings of discrimination against anyone within its walls. It is a pity that you didn't take the time to investigate the stimulating and progressive teaching methods they now employ.

I have every confidence you will be happy with CSS, and wish you and yours well.

NewtoTown

03-23-2003, 07:38 AM

Thanks PenD and I am sorry for the pain you have experienced. How old is your daughter? I was born and raised in LA (lower Arkansas) and didnt have too many positive experiences with either public or private schools. I always felt like a round peg in a square hole. I dont want that for my kids. One has had pretty good experiences with learning and the other, horrible except for a couple of years. I love Eureka, and I always have, and have been welcomed here with open arms by most, and am sure I am where I am supposed to be. With that said, I am sure the universe will provide a learning experience for both my kids that will be right for them. While Clear Spring did encourage their creativity and freedom of thought and expression, it damaged their hearts, and bodies. There is a line where one person's "freedom of expression" crosses over another person's boundaries and my children experienced that intrusion. By the way, talking about discrimination, the boys my son's age were all out on the playground playing a physical game they called "Smear the Queer" daily. Finally, I think the PE teacher went to the headmaster and got him to stop it. That is not the kind of game I want my children to play. Also, a gang of boys held my son down and stuffed carrots up his nose, while his teacher and possibly other staff watched and did nothing. This is just a sample of what we experienced. Violence begets violence. Either we are a part of the problem or we are a part of the solution.

[This message has been edited by NewtoTown (edited 03-23-2003).]

[This message has been edited by NewtoTown (edited 03-23-2003).]

Marsha Havens

03-23-2003, 06:04 PM

Dear New:

I am most distressed by your last post. I have questioned some of the boys in this class and have come to the following conclusion: they don't think of queer as being a synonym for homosexual. These kids are quite literal in their thinking, and also quite innocent. It rhymes. It seems this game in itself is an innocent one. Football. Tackle the one with the football. One they were told there were "bad" connotations associated with calling the game by this misnomer, they certainly didn't want to call it that any more. It has nothing to do with discrimination, at least for the ones I know and love. Thirteen, fourteen year old boys are by nature quite physical. There have been a number of incidents which have been misinterpreted and I believe this to be one of them. I regularly have a number of these boys in my house and know how they play. They are like puppies, not big, bad dogs.

The incident you refer to with the carrots is quite unbelievable.Staff would not allow anything of this sort to happen. I'm not saying it is made up; I'm saying they wouldn't allow it. My son did not see this incident and so I can't speak to it, but I know the teachers and this would not happen if they were watching, as you believe they were.

NewtoTown

03-23-2003, 07:31 PM

Marsha, believe me, the carrots was one of the nicer things. I have witnesses, unfortunately, and plenty of them. I also have traumatized children to show for it. Sorry, you are wrong. I wish you were right, believe me, I really wish you were right. It saddens me. The responses of the other parents, including you, saddens me more. My son wasn't used to being physical with other kids, and certainly not at school. Like I said, violence begets violence. It is not ok.

Marsha Havens

03-23-2003, 11:17 PM

Dear New:

"The responses of the other parents, including you, saddens me more."

Perhaps you don't understand that we at Clear Spring School feel like family. No, we don't feel like family, we are family. We respect and care for each other. When we have problems, we work them out together, as we would do with our loved ones, because we do love each other.

NewtoTown

03-24-2003, 07:23 AM

Yes I do understand that you are a family. As John Bradshaw says, " just because all the birds are flying in the same direction doesnt mean it's the right direction." Only a couple of people there loved and respected us, helped us work it out. I dont want to continue this discussion here, Marsha. I gave out my email address in the first post, to seek others who have had similar experiences. I have found them. You are obviously not one of them. I wrote letters to all the CSS parents with a summary of my experiences and included my phone number so they could reach me if necessary. I am not about beating dead horses or teaching pigs to sing, I am about doing what I can to heal the planet, one soul at a time. There is a joke about how many therapists it takes to change a light bulb, and the answer is one, but the light bulb really has to want to change. Have a great Monday Marsha.

PenDragon

03-24-2003, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by 2100:

I must stand up on behalf of our public school. It is an EXCELLENT school, with kind, wonderful caring teachers, (dare I say nurturing?) supportive staff and volunteers, and I can't remember when last I heard any rumblings of discrimination against anyone within its walls.

2100,

Actually, I do believe that Eureka does indeed have a fine public school. The school my oldest daughter went to in Elementary was a very fine public school. However, I also know that kids say and do things behind teachers backs that meeker children find it difficult to report (this was the case of my oldest daughter, she was very meek).

I am not saying this is something that happens on a daily basis at EES, nor I am not saying this is something that would never happen at CSS, I am just saying that I am trying to minimize the chances of it happening by having a smaller student body. ESS is a fine school, and I have looked in to it and it was our second choice.

I in no way meant to sound as if I was diminishing or speak ill of the quality of staff, teaching methods or facilities at Eureka, they are excellent and it is an excellent school.

shy girl

03-24-2003, 04:06 PM

My daughter has been at ES Middle School since the first of the year. She absolutely LOVES her school. The teachers and admin. are very nice, very professional, and eager to help. One thing my daughter said was how happy she is here because the kids don't make fun of her for being small like at the old school. ESMS gets a big A+ from our whole family.

eurekacowgirl

03-24-2003, 05:03 PM

quote "I also want my child to have the opportunity to make up her own mind about what she believes or does not believe"

question: how in the heck does a child know enough about life to know how to make up his/her mind without the guidance of parents, teachers, etc.??? how would a child know what to believe in or what not to believe in without the guidance of parents, teachers, etc.? Come on parents.....teach your children how to make their own decisions....don't just let them make them while they are too young to know how. YOU are the parent/teacher, YOU should guide them in teaching them how to make the right decisions. Children should NOT be made to make up their own minds - to me that is neglect!

EurekaRebel

03-24-2003, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by eurekacowgirl:
YOU are the parent/teacher, YOU should guide them in teaching them how to make the right decisions. Children should NOT be made to make up their own minds - to me that is neglect!

I totally agree with you EurekaCowgirl! CCS
is much too free thinking and unstructured for my children. I DO want them to think for themselves and make up their own minds about things, but not when they are still children.

I checked out the public school as well as CCS before enrolling my children in The Academy of Excellence. The public school seemed slow due to the influx of Hispanics who can't speak English and CCS was a little
too laid back and and "hippie styled" for my liking. We are very happy at The Academy and hope to help them grow and prosper so they will soon have K thru 12th grade.

I highly recommend The Academy of Excellence.

becsflowers

03-24-2003, 07:41 PM

I think all of our schools in Eureka offer something for everybody. I personally have a daughter in Middle School too, and we think the world of our public school. we had a good experience in grade school, now middle school, and are looking forward to FUN FUN FUN with higher learning when it comes time for high school. People are just people. Where EVER they are. We could learn just as much here if we had to attend school in a pup tent. It's all about attitude and respect....

eurekacowgirl

03-26-2003, 08:55 AM

I'm a graduate of Eureka Springs High School and I am very grateful for the education I received. I am more grateful for the experiences I received by being among children of all ages. I learned how to get along with all types of people - as you know, not everyone is alike. I worry about the children in private school that only associate with a limited group of kids.
Any input on this?

NewtoTown

03-26-2003, 10:18 AM

I like the exposure to diversity that public schools offer, but we are limited in this area anyway. My daughter started the public school on Monday and it has been so far above what she was offered at Clear Spring it isnt funny. To think I paid for the bullying at CSS! The good news is that a teacher at Clear Spring is under investigation. Perhaps the administration will be forced to examine the dust collecting skeletons in their closets through the persuasion of legal authorities. Concern of a paying customer did little to nothing.

PMilam

03-26-2003, 12:29 PM

Marianne, please stop this unsubstantiated smear campaign.

NewtoTown

03-26-2003, 05:58 PM

Patt, call it as you see it. That is not how we see it, nor how you saw it when I talked to you personally. You shared a very similar story with me. I know these are your friends, as you stated in an earlier post, but even friends aren't perfect and need to change at times. I have spoken nothing but the truth and will continue to do that if it will stop one more child from being hurt. You won't silence me either. God bless you Patt.

PMilam

03-26-2003, 11:15 PM

Just what do you think I said?

No matter what you may have in your mind, I never said anything to you that would in any way, even slightly, hint that I agreed with you.

Our conversations took place at GTW meetings, and the incident I spoke of concerned a former principal at the ES Public High School.

I was very clear that it was not CSS.

You are saying that Clear Springs School, it's teachers and 30 years of parents and students(some pushing 40!) have "dust collecting skeletons in their closets".

You are attacking us all.

You are saying that we have all sat by and let our children be bullied, that we allowed the teachers to let bad behavior go unnoticed, that we allowed "an atmosphere of terror" in classrooms, that we allowed homophobic behavior.

You are saying that not only parents stood by, but that older siblings kept their mouths shut, knowing their little brother or sister would be subjected to it.

You are saying that the students that now have their children enrolled think it's ok to put their kids in harms way.

(I asked my nephew, 16, who attends the high school, and has gone there all but one year, about "smear the queer". He said the the teachers made he and his friends call it "smear the guy with the ball". They did not allow it when he was 12, they do not allow it now.)

These people are not just my friends, they have many friends in the community.

The parents are outraged at you, and when the rest of the community becomes aware of the attacks, they will also be outraged at you.

I believe in people I've known for 29 years, seen the work they do, the way they live their lives, the way they give of themselves. I believe the hundreds of CSS alumni that come back year after year to visit, and share how much their time at the school prepared them for life, how grateful they are for having the opportunity to attend school here.

The teachers you have targeted are smart, courageous, and compassionate women that have made valuable contributions to this town, this county, this state.

I don't believe that any teacher at CSS promotes an atmosphere of oppression, fear, bullying.

I do believe there is a bully in the neighborhood.

"Only a couple of people there loved and respected us, helped us work it out."

That is incomprehensible to me. In the nearly 30 years that I have been associated with CSS, I have never known anyone that was rejected, upon entrance, in fact I don't know of anyone that was rejected, unless the child had serious problems that the school is not designed to handle.

Everyone at the school bent over backwards to work things out with you. Meetings with an arbitrator were set up, you never showed up.
You have continually harassed these good people.

It does not surprise me that you were asked to leave the school.

"I dont want to continue this discussion here, Marsha. I gave out my email address in the first post, to seek others who have had similar experiences. I have found them." "I have witnesses, unfortunately, and plenty of them."

Where are they? Who are they?

"I wanted to give my e-mail address out publicly so that I might connect with others who have experienced something similar, not to start rumors. With that said, I am leaving it to only email and face to face communications."

Now there's a good idea.

May God bless us all.

[This message has been edited by PMilam (edited 03-26-2003).]

EurekaRebel

03-27-2003, 08:04 AM

Ms. Milam are you in soap box mode again???

Are you so passionate and opinionated about
EVERY issue that comes before this BBS? Why
is YOUR opinion always the RIGHT one and everyone else is WRONG? I always swear I won't read your replies, as you just go on and on, but for some reason, I always read them anyway. You seem like an intelligent, if
misguided woman. Why don't you let others have a chance to speak? Just because YOUR
kids had a GOOD experience at CCS, does not mean that MJ's kids had one also. Are you suggesting she is lying? I don't doubt her for one minute.

Geez, lady, get a life and lower you blood pressure. You get FAR too upset about TOO many things.

Marsha Havens

03-27-2003, 08:29 AM

Everyone involved in this is upset, for the reasons Ms. Milam suggests. Newtotown is suggesting that we've stuck our heads in the sand over any number of serious events. If these things were happening, we wouldn't ignore them. We at Clear Spring are being put down and verbally abused. A number of people connected with the school are being "bullied" by her accusations and we thank Patt for speaking up.

Kaye Miller

03-27-2003, 09:02 AM

We have a grandson in preschool at CSS so I have been following this thread with great interest, but did not feel the need to post until EurekaRebel added her/his? last post.

Patt, I appreciate everything you have posted. We certainly do not always agree on everything but I value your judgment and experience.

As I have read and reread this post, I keep coming back to "Hispanics" and "hippy-styled". Bigoted?? Can this person really have anything meaningful to add to this thread?? Is there really any question why this person chose AE??

If you read through the many posts you will find EurekaRebel is allowed to defend those s/he wants to defend without anyone slamming her/him.

So, Patt, KEEP ON KEEPING ON!!

Magic

03-27-2003, 09:06 AM

We've heard folks talk about their good experiences with CSS. In over 20 years of living here I have heard only good positive things about the school. Maybe it is time to research what experiences NewtoTown had before she moved here. It's a small world, shouldn't be hard to track down former teachers, employeers or co-workers and learn of their experiences with this lady and her children. This information could bring to the board both sides of the issue. We know the teachers, parents of Clear Spring School, what we don't know is the past relationships and reputations that NewtoTown and her children bring to town. Let's be fair, find out both sides as to their relationships with the world.Then debate.

sweetness&light

03-27-2003, 09:20 AM

Why don't you let others have a chance to speak?

This thread started 3-16-03 and there have been times when no one has posted for two or three days in a row. Everyone has and has had a chance to speak. You did. Those who want to speak will post, those who don't, won't.

Simple like that.

NewtoTown

03-27-2003, 09:33 AM

Patt, I am not speaking of the last thirty years, of which I have no knowledge, but of what I have experienced this year. Parenting thirty years ago was totally different than what it is today, as is true with education. What is acceptable today is different than what was acceptable thirty years ago. Not one parent has contacted me to tell me of their outrage, but several have contacted me with support. If what I am saying was untrue, people would laugh at me and go on. That is not what is happening. A teacher at the school, one many of the parents have a lot of respect for, wrote a letter to the Board of Directors about bullying by the staff! It is happening, it is real, and it needs to be addressed. Period. Violence begets violence.

NewtoTown

03-27-2003, 09:45 AM

Patt, you also have no idea what anybody did to work out anything with me. You were not present for any of it. The relationship I had with you was through GTW. I went to the first session with the mediator, and had to cancel the second because both my child and I were sick. Before the next session could occur, my children were terminated from the school. I understand why they were terminated, too; their mother refuses to cover up what is going on at the school. The administration was uncomfortable about what I would do or say next. I am sorry your friends are hurting, but your friends hurt my children, and I am not going to stand by and silently watch, nor will I just go away. It's not in my nature. "Killing the messenger" and discrediting the witness have long been methods of attempting to squelch the truth by those with the power. Karma will eventually prevail.

NewtoTown

03-27-2003, 09:47 AM

Eureka Rebel, you used to hate me, slammed me on the tourist forum, and slammed me here, because of my defense of gays. What has happened?

EurekaRebel

03-27-2003, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by NewtoTown:
Eureka Rebel, you used to hate me, slammed me on the tourist forum, and slammed me here, because of my defense of gays. What has happened?

MJ, I do not hate anyone. I am taking your side in this discussion as I too have heard unpleasant things about CCS. And regardless of your defense of gays, I still think you should be allowed to speak the truth as you see it. And I do hate cover-ups in any form.

Marsha Havens

03-27-2003, 04:20 PM

I'll always remember an Easter Egg hunt that occurred a few years back at Clear Spring. When I arrived to pick up my children, a mother, new to the school, was crying. On asking her what was wrong, she responded that her son hadn't found any eggs and the children had filled his basket. She couldn't believe how much they cared about each other and protected each other. Love is reflected in love.

NewtoTown

03-27-2003, 04:24 PM

Fair enough, EurekaRebel, I appreciate that. My prayer is that the outcome of this will be for the highest good for all. Patt, I understand and respect your loyalty to your friends, and understand why you see me the way you do. You are passionate about what you believe in, and in supporting your causes, as am I. I respect that.

NewtoTown

03-27-2003, 04:26 PM

Marsha please tell me who I am bullying and how. I certainly dont want to do that, and want to take corrective action in any way I can.

RUBYTUESDAY

03-27-2003, 07:12 PM

"Marsha please tell me who I am bullying and how"

As PMilam said, you are saying that all parents and former students have skeletons in their closets or are trying to cover something up.

As a former CSS student, I have some thoughts on the above statement. You are saying that we have all been covering up abuse. You are saying that we are knowingly sending our children into harms way. You are not only accusing the current teachers and students, but all who preceded them. I am highly offended by your accusations that we have had no voice or stood by silently while we (students) were abused or witnessing abuse. That is bullying to me.

carlspakler

03-27-2003, 07:57 PM

Over the years the perception of the CSS to ESHS students has always been that it should be considered more of a "liberal arts" school. It was always the "square peg in a round hole" student that went to CSS who could not fit in at ESHS. Honestly, the students at CSS for the most part are there because of their parents odd perception of ESHS, not because of their own choice. Some times a parent will use their own experience in school to dictate what will happen to their children. Most ,but not all, of these parents were most likely considered outsiders when they were in school.

As far as CSS teaching the students to think for themselves, that says it all. Teaching to think for themselves, question authority and so on IS teaching someone how to think! Don't pretend that CSS is teaching free thinking. It is geared towards liberal thoughts. Don't try to deny it. Just like the other private school in town is geared more towards conservative thinking. At least the Academy admits it and does not hide it.

NewtoTown

03-28-2003, 07:44 AM

Ruby, I am not saying all students or parents are doing anything. I am saying some students, some parents, and the administration. It could be lack of awareness, lack of information or lack of interest. I dont know. I think if the enlightened reader will reread this thread in it's entirety, they will see why people mainly hear good things about the school and why people dont speak up more about the problems there. How many people do you think have the fortitude to withstand the kind of responses I have gotten? You have been given a fine example, at an adult written level, of what my children went through on a verbal, physical and emotional level. Can you imagine how it felt to be them? I was advised yesterday by a community leader to leave geekfest. I am going to take the advice. The mother of the boy who reported being grabbed by his teacher and being thrown into the room into a table will be reporting in to let you know if the charges are substantiated or not. I suspect you will hear from the teacher eventually who wrote to the board about the bullying by the staff. The truth will win eventually.

eurekacowgirl

03-28-2003, 08:53 AM

I'm sorry you were asked to leave, but I do believe that it will be easier on you (emotionally) to do so. I think I understand your anger and frustration. My best lifetime memories are from Eureka Springs Elementary School - they bend over backwards for the children there AND the parents!
Good luck!

moontoo

03-28-2003, 09:04 AM

All the schools in Eureka are good schools with dedicated teachers, staff and administrators.
Kids bully on every playground in America. Parents need to stay out of it and let the kids and the school work it out. When a parent stays involved in all their kids fights and arguments the kids never learn to work out their problems. They also learn they are always right and the world owes them whatever they want.

Pez _lbs

04-01-2003, 10:01 PM

FROM TWO STUDENTS OF CSS

We are two 7th grade students at the Clear Spring School, one of
whom has attended this school for 5 years.

MJ (Newtotown) 's oldest child was in our class this year. He was
bullied and teased a bit at first, but later in the year he got to know
a few of the boys in our class.
After that, the only teasing/bullying we saw was definitely joking,
and he knew it .

Most schools have bullying. Clear Spring School is no exception,
but it has MUCH less than any of the 9 schools we have attended
which include schools in Eureka and out of state.

Although we are only 12, we have been in the classroom under
ALL circumstances, as many of you parents and adults have not. If
you do go into the classroom, your presence affects the behaviors
of the other students towards your child. Nobody in their right mind
would bully or tease your child right in front of you.

In class we spent several days addressing bullying this year. The
student went to every single meeting. After each meeting the
amount of bullying decreased. This says allot for Clear Spring
School considering none of the nine schools which we have gone
to ever did ANYTHING about the bullying in their classes.

NewtoTown

05-06-2003, 09:44 AM

I got a call this morning from the mother of the child who was "allegedly" abused by the teacher at Clear Springs. She received a letter from the Arkansas State Police stating that the abuse allegations were substantiated and that his teacher was the offender. The teacher is still teaching at the school.

ArkansawHillbillys

05-06-2003, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by NewtoTown:
I got a call this morning from the mother of the child who was "allegedly" abused by the teacher at Clear Springs. She received a letter from the Arkansas State Police stating that the abuse allegations were substantiated and that his teacher was the offender. The teacher is still teaching at the school.

This is really interesting. Maybe she could scan that letter and post it here. If it's on "official" letterhead then it should have the date, address, Officer's name sending the report, and a telephone number so we can call and confirm all this. That way there will be no doubt in anyone's mind about all this. Then everyone can demand to know why the teacher hasn't been arrested, suspended, counseled...etc.....Personally, I like to deal in facts and proof. I'd like to see the letter!

ArkansawHillbillys

05-06-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Heretic:
New,
You know what they say, "Kids are like farts. You can only stand your own."

Ha! Yes! That is true Heretic...unless of course it is a brain fart! LOL Then one often lets it go over the head un-noticed! *G*

NewtoTown

05-06-2003, 11:37 AM

I will ask her about it. My understanding is that the State Police substantiated the allegations and turned it over to the prosecutor for him to decide whether or not to prosecute. If you are interested, I could send her your email address and have her contact you.

ArkansawHillbillys

05-06-2003, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by NewtoTown:
I will ask her about it. My understanding is that the State Police substantiated the allegations and turned it over to the prosecutor for him to decide whether or not to prosecute. If you are interested, I could send her your email address and have her contact you.

Newtotown....I really am not interested in talking to her directly on this issue. However, since the comment was made on this board that the allegations were substantiated by the State Police, I think it only fair and appropriate to all parties concerned and/or interested that the proof is posted here in this open forum. That way there is little doubt as to what is fact and what may be fiction. I have heard a totally different story thru the grapevine but since no one wants to back things up with fact and proof, I would not say what I was told. If a teacher is actually abusing a student then it should be made public. I feel the same if a student is abusing a teacher or another student. It goes both ways! Hope All Have A Great Day!

NewtoTown

05-07-2003, 09:48 AM

Fair enough. I have heard the other side, too. I will ask the Mom. She can block out the names of her child and the teacher if she wants to protect them. She has registered for geekfest and intends to bring her info her eventually. I had all the proof I needed with my eyes!

Trucker

05-07-2003, 12:54 PM

I will not post the letter. This child has had nothing but greif since the incident happened. This has been going on since March 6. If you need confirmation contact the Eureka Springs police dept. they took the initial report. It was in both papers under police log. Better yet contact the the prosecuting attorney and ask him what he plans to do.

Believe what you want. There was an investigation. The letter states "The evidence supports the allegation of Child Maltreatment and ____ Was named as the offeder."

ArkansawHillbillys

05-08-2003, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Trucker:
I will not post the letter. This child has had nothing but greif since the incident happened. This has been going on since March 6. If you need confirmation contact the Eureka Springs police dept. they took the initial report. It was in both papers under police log. Better yet contact the the prosecuting attorney and ask him what he plans to do.

Believe what you want. There was an investigation. The letter states "The evidence supports the allegation of Child Maltreatment and ____ Was named as the offeder."

You say "Believe what you want" but that's not the issue here. The issue here is the subject was brought up here in this forum and people are supposed to believe these things just because someone posted it and said it was true. If you are going to make the allegations, you should be prepared to back them up with the facts, or DON"T POST THEM! You say you won't post the letter but your rumors are all over this board and all over town. You are protecting who? The child that you already have in the middle of all this by expelling the rumors (whether or not they are fact/fiction) or the teacher who you seem to be accusing of maltreatment? I would really be interested in EXACTLY what the maltreatment was. Is it possible to have ANY details here or do you expect us all to just accept that maltreatment occurred because supposedly the State Police said there was. Now it is my understanding that under our system of justice in this country, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty, Regardless of what the State Police says! Don't get me wrong here....I'm not taking sides, but should I wind up on a jury for a trial concerning this issue....you can bet your ass I will weigh ALL the FACTS before making a determination of guilt or innocence and I wouldn't be biased based on what I heard on this board!

Steve Beacham

05-09-2003, 02:10 PM

Is this Mother and child the same ones from Fayetteville that had a similar charge against a teacher in the public school there?

NewtoTown

05-09-2003, 02:35 PM

Hi Steve, I dont know who you are talking about from Fayetteville, but no, she and her child are not from there, and they havent had charges elsewhere. My original point in posting the issue was to bring the skeletons out of the closet, organize and advocate on behalf of the children and inform the community of what is going on there. Families have disrupted their lives to move here and find that the mission statement of Clear Springs does not represent the reality of the experiences for many children there. These families are then faced with more tough decisions about uprooting and moving again, and finding the best educational experiences for their children. I wanted people to be able to make informed decisions.

moontoo

05-09-2003, 10:39 PM

It is very unusual for the
State Police to investagate a school teacher. The State Police would have to be asked to do so by the Prosecuting Attorney, Chief of Police or Sheriff of the County where the alleged incident happened. Why doesn't someone call the Prosecuting Att. and see if they have asked for a State Police investigation at Clear Springs. I think if an investigation had taken place there would have been talk in Eureka about it and not just what is read on this board.

I don't for one minute believe that the State Police have done an investgation of a teacher at Clear Springs.

NewtoTown

05-10-2003, 07:48 AM

That is the procedure, Moontoo. The mom went to the Eureka Springs Police Department and I reported it to the Child Abuse Hotline whoinvestigated and then turned it over to the State Police to substantiate. They did, and turned it over to the Prosecutor who must then decide what to do next. My understanding is that from the substantiation alone the teacher will be put on the child abuser register that will make it difficult or impossible for her to find another job working with children. Moontoo, I am not surprised you havent heard about it. Cover up is alive and well and living in Eureka Springs!

Becky Davis

05-10-2003, 08:56 AM

It sounds as if you all did the right thing in reporting these unpleasant events.
I am confused though as to what you are trying to accomplish by posting about them.
There are minor children involved. Usually the courts, police, newspapers bend over backwards to protect juveniles.
Is it to darken the name of Clear Springs School because they did not handle the incident as you wanted them to? What would you have them do? I am just curious.
It all seems pretty moot, since no one has provided the teachers name, only the school's name. Why? What exactly is the cover up? Is the same teacher involved in both instances?
Is it a case of he said she said? Are there eye witnesses on both sides? Are you attempting to prosecute because of what happened to your child?
If indeed, your child has been abused, you should.
On the other hand, Clear Springs has enjoyed an extremely good reputation for a long time. I think this sort of retaliation is hurtful not only to the school, but the entire student body.
It would seem to me it would be better to give an entire account of dates, times, exactly what happened and just what you would have the school do?
In your case, the incident was obviously not handled to your satisfaction. I am sorry for that. It should have been.

ArkansawHillbillys

05-10-2003, 09:43 AM

Rumor has it that the State Police never had anything to do with this...they kicked it back down to the Sheriff who actually has juridiction. Rumor also has it that the allegations were NOT substantiated, but then...NO ONE wants to show any proof or facts on either side of this case. Except for what is posted in here that we are all supposed to accept as FACTS, I have my doubts to the rumors I am hearing concerning all this. Take note...a teacher can't "JUST BE PLACED" on that registry without due process of law. (Or then can they? This is Arkansas ~Controlled for years by Hilliary and Bill) Have there been criminal charges filed? Has there been a conviction, whether through trial or a plea of guilt? Has there been any civil actions? Folks, some of your postings could be considered slander and liable even in Arkansas! You'd be wise to start posting the facts or keep your thoughts to yourself, but do what you want. Sometimes the best lessons learned are the costly ones! Have A Great Day!

[This message has been edited by ArkansawHillbillys (edited 05-10-2003).]

ArkansawHillbillys

05-10-2003, 09:57 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NewtoTown:
I reported it to the Child Abuse Hotline whoinvestigated and then turned it over to the State Police to substantiate.

Newtotown...don't take this wrong as I am just curious. You said you reported it to the Child Abuse Hotline? Did you have any FIRSTHAND knowledge of this abuse? Did you see it or witness it, or did you just call the hotline based on what someone was able to convince you happened? Or am I missing something here? Was this your kid? If not, then why did you feel the need to do this without truly knowing the facts. Facts you could not know unless you witnessed the abuse with your own eyes? And why wasn't reporting it to the police department enough?
Were you concerned they wouldn't do their job and investigate it properly? And if it truly needed to be reported to the hotline, why didn't the Mom do it instead of you? Did you pressure this lady to press this issue? Are you kin to her? Guess what I am trying to ask in a nice way is why was your nose in all this? Just curious. If I knew what the alleged abuse was and knew it really happened, I might be doing the same things you are doing. Getting involved! So don't take what I am saying the wrong way...I am just puzzeled about the flimsy details here.

[This message has been edited by ArkansawHillbillys (edited 05-10-2003).]

NewtoTown

05-10-2003, 11:16 AM

Becky, see my above post for the reasons I have posted the information here. Clear Springs may have enjoyed a good reputation for a long time, but it does not deserve it now. I speak the truth as I know it. AR Hillbilly, I reported the alleged abuse because I happened to be the one who picked up the child that day and gave him a ride to lessons and he reported the incident to me. I am a licensed certified social worker and am a mandated reporter in my professional capacity, and didnt know if I was in this case, but certainly felt I was ethically if not legally. I am aware of the serious nature of the topics I am bringing here, and would not do any of it without back up. My children and the other mom's child were not the only ones to have bad experiences there, and I want current parents and prospective parents to make decisions with their eyes open. I dont know that it is necessary to post the name of the teacher, as it it not just the teacher but the whole school that is in need of intervention.

Heretic

05-10-2003, 01:51 PM

New,

I can appreciate that you feel you're doing the right thing. However, due process is not served by publishing libelous information on a public forum. You endanger the case by contaminating the potential jury pool, and don't do a lot for your "professional" image, either. You did what you had to do, now let the courts work it out.

NewtoTown

05-10-2003, 03:08 PM

What did I say that was "libelous" Heretic? Do you really have faith in the courts?

moontoo

05-10-2003, 03:18 PM

Newtotown stated: My understanding is that from the substantiation alone the teacher will be put on the child abuser register that will make it difficult or impossible for her to find another job working with children

What in the world could have happened for the above statement to be true??

This is terrible and the negative things being posted about Clear Springs and a teacher on this board is wrong, wrong, wrong!!!

What are the facts? Just what someone says and someone heard doesn't make it true.

Three sides to every story: my side, your side and the RIGHT side.

moontoo

05-10-2003, 11:24 PM

I have to concede that an investigation took place of a Clear Springs Teacher.
I don't know how to truly express my feelings on this matter in writing. I taught school and substitute taught for over 25 years and shutter to think how a parent could have gotten mad at me over the treatment of a child and ruined my career. So many things happen in a classroom that could be taken out of context if a parent is looking for a reason to "get" a teacher. Too bad that some parents won't let the administration handle staff problems.

ArkansawHillbillys

05-11-2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by NewtoTown:
Do you really have faith in the courts?

Newtotown...there is little doubt in my mind you felt you did the right thing for whatever reason, and I can appreciate that. Does anyone have "total" faith in the courts? After years working in and around the criminal justice system, I know the courts definitely fail the "system" at times. However, it is our system of government and it is how we deal with criminal and civil matters in this country. Whether or not we really trust that the court system is going to do the "right" thing or not should not be an issue. A complaint is filed...charges brought...a trial..(maybe with a jury/maybe just a judge) then a verdict. Thats how things work. If we are afraid that justice will not be done...we can't try to impose our own justice on society. Maybe I misunderstood the reason for you asking that question. If so, my apologies.

The original point though remains....If this investigation took place and was substantiated, then posting that info here after all that has been said will only confirm what has been said. If the facts and proof are not posted, then we all remain not knowing what is truly fact and what is fiction. Is more being made out of this that should be? I must also agree with Heretic concerning whether or not anything should ever had been said in the first place until the justice system had a chance to run its course. However, many read this forum like they do the daily news, so maybe there isn't much difference between you reporting something here and the newspapers reporting the same thing. EXCEPT a newspaper is extremely careful to deal in facts and when they post something they are just as careful to try and include "all" the facts. Anything less could cause them a lot of problems.

Lita

05-11-2003, 10:28 AM

After reading all of the posts on this subject, I have one main concern. I hope the kids identity is not revealed. This subject could play hell on their life in a small town. Kind of takes me back to the Joe Maes incident at the middle school. Remember when half the town showed up for the school board hearing on this ? I have never seen anything like it !

NewtoTown

05-11-2003, 11:48 AM

I am with you Lita, it's true and, having accomplished my goals, I bid you all adieu, or however you spell it! Happy Mother's day to all mothers. What a gift and a responsibility!

sweetness&light

05-11-2003, 10:27 PM

having accomplished my goals

NewtoTown

08-15-2003, 09:35 AM

An update on the teacher abuse issue...the abuse was substantiated by the Arkansas State Police Crimes Against Children division, the investigator's first name was Amber, cant remember her last name right now. The teacher's name was placed on the child abuse registry. She has appealed, and last I heard she is still employed by Clear Spring and slated to teach there this fall. The hearing on the appeal was scheduled to happen this week (Tuesday I believe), but was postponed because the teacher asked for a continuance.

NewtoTown

08-20-2003, 10:46 AM

The faculty list for CSS was in the paper recently and the teacher's name was not on the list so maybe somebody there is getting a clue.

NewtoTown

09-22-2003, 12:03 PM

I think it was KTHS, the radio station out of Berryville,that announced in their arrest report this morning that Coby, a teacher at Clear Spring, was arrested over the weekend. He is one of the teachers I reported to the headmaster and board of directors who had an anger management problem with the students. An anonymous person called me this morning and told me that police responded to a call Friday night on Coby's street to a woman with injuries. The sad thing about this was that, just like the other teacher who is currently appealing her case of substantiated child abuse, it could have been prevented if the administration, board, and parents of CSS were willing to acknowledge the elephant in the living room, or that the emporor had no clothes. A woman and a child would not have been abused if they had listened to me and others who warned them.