Very unhappy with council

[Chuck Schmidt]

At tonights City Council meeting a vote was taken to vacate Ald. Penny Carroll's council seat. The vote tied at the table with Carroll, Berry and Ott voting against Linblad, Umland and Money voting for and the Mayor breaking the tie in favor of removing Ms. Carroll from her council seat. The argument for Ms. Carrol's removal consisted of accusations and allegations, none of which where backed up with documentation. Ms. Carroll brought documentation to prove her residency was in fact in Ward 1 which she represents.
Those who argued for her removal claimed it was a matter of integrity and that Ms. Carroll was in violation of the law for she had vacated her ward, yet they produced no leases, signed affidavits, or even some type of video documentation to prove their allegations. They also claimed thier actions where not politically motivated.
Considering the evidence presented tonight I can see no other motivation for thier actions.
Ms Carroll's only mistake was she made waves and asked unpopular questions concerning some major issues facing the city which is something one must not do in the present state of our city.
I am very disappointed in the actions of some of those that sit at that table and would like to THANK Ms. Carroll for all of her hard work looking out for the best interest of the citizens of Eureka Springs.
For those who choose to act in such a manner, keep in mind the old saying "what goes around comes around".
Ms. Carroll, I hope you run for council in the upcoming election we need people like you at that table and I'm sure you will win.

[Lucinda]

She's fine, and she won't run again. ES gets to lie in the bed it made with less than a handful of people telling you not to wrinkle the sheets. Rest a spell but don't sleep.

[Anymouse]

Originally posted by Lucinda:
She's fine, and she won't run again.

Well Duh! Would you run again, it is not worth it. You know it was in my mind that the Mayor and former mayor were crazy, but now I look at it like all of the city government is. Why would anyone subject them selves to the BS going on in this little Ozark Mountain town with a statue, some holes in the ground trickling water out of them and a short history.
To quote a signature from a former citizen "If you like what your getting keep doing what you've been doing!" Enjoy your sespool Eureka Springs -- or is it Schitty Springs?

[This message has been edited by Anymouse (edited 07-27-2004).]

[C-mo]

Outrageous.

[Lucinda]

Apparently it ain't over til it's over. and it ain't over.

[redneck]

What a crazy world! You just might be redneck or i might just take that back ifs you on ES city council. Thats probably giving them too much credit.

[bear]

It aint over its just getting good Lucinda. It aint over till the fat lady sings.

[oldwizard]

Originally posted by Anymouse:

To quote a signature from a former citizen "If you like what your getting keep doing what you've been doing!" Enjoy your sespool Eureka Springs -- or is it Schitty Springs?

[This message has been edited by Anymouse (edited 07-27-2004).]

Anymouse,

There is no former to my citizenship of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. We are both still registered voters of ward 2 and intend to remain so.

Carol and I or away temporarily and have no intention of establishing a residence anywhere other than our current residency in Eureka Springs, Arkansas.

So far Eureka Springs has had almost 6 years of much worse than normal governance, if we don't find honorable qualified candidates willing to run things will stay the same.

The Satori Administration was elected spouting that they would change the status quo and represent all the citizens of Eureka Springs. The Harrison Administration was elected saying essentially the same thing. both administrations have represented only the views and desires of Royals "small group of thinking people".

"Fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me."

The shame is on us Eureka Springs; we elected both administrations, now it is time to throw the bums out. To be replaced, not by another group with only ears for one side of any issue. We must find people that understand that public service is service to all the public, not just the part of the public that supports what you want to do.

Glenn Strange

"IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN GETTING, KEEP DOING WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING."



[This message has been edited by oldwizard (edited 07-27-2004).]

[Lucinda]

City council always re-runs around noon the following day. This is the second time the council has looked less than professional, caught feedback in the morning, and then the tape is not re-run. I guess they don't want those of us who missed most or all of it to watch them at work. This way less people get to see what really happened to compare their first hand impression to what will be written tonight and tomorrow night.

Mushrooms people.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 07-27-2004).]

[Andy McDonald]

Did the council serve the people of Eureka Springs last night?

What exactly, was accomplished by removing Penny Carroll from the Council?

What was her crime? Was she living off of the citizens by not paying her taxes? Did she vote twice in an election? Did she have a long hidden felony conviction in her past? :-0

[This message has been edited by Andy McDonald (edited 07-27-2004).]

[Whatdoyouthink]

I am curious. What would the council members who voted to declare Ms Carroll's position vacant say if they were asked to justify their vote? What's "the rest of the story?"

[Lucinda]

Oh just forget it. I've other things to do.

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 07-27-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 07-27-2004).]

[Whatdoyouthink]

Just asking because I didn't know how the motion was worded, was there a moment when Ms. Money made up her mind, What did they say before they voted, etc. I didn't have a hidden agenda for asking. Sorry you took it that way.

Where would I get the "best" information? Citizen or Times-Echo? Someplace else?

[Whatdoyouthink]

Thanks, sorry about the misunderstanding.

[moontoo]

If Carroll wasn't living in the ward she was elected from...she could not legally still set at the council. She should have resigned on her own.

[Lucinda]

Carroll had an attorney's opinion and case laws to back her up. The fact she never intended to leave her ward and was moving into her own house in ward 1 legally means she never vacated her ward. The law states "intent". This has been tried in Eureka Springs also, in the past and those who took it to court could not make their case to deny anothers freedom to choose where there residence is and from where they vote.

Penny did not want to mislead anyone, she wanted to serve. Anyone who speaks with her knows this. In a town were no one wants public office, we toss out ones who do?

This was spun to make Penny appear dicey - citizens can buy into the propaganda or not. When they do, they allow themselves to be led.

The law is the law and none of those people at the table last night should have been making legal decisions outsid their areas of expertise.

[Anymouse]

Originally posted by oldwizard:
Anymouse,

There is no former to my citizenship of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. We are both still registered voters of ward 2 and intend to remain so.

My mistake in saying that, please scratch the former and replace with wiser

[Aaron Falotico]

Originally posted by Whatdoyouthink:
Just asking because I didn't know how the motion was worded, was there a moment when Ms. Money made up her mind,


The moment Ms Money made up her mind was right after Ms Carroll said her intent was to move to Eureka St in the early summer but changed her mind after the Poop Plant exploded. Ms Money did not want to end discussion as, I believe, she wanted clarification on this statement. The arguments boiled down to intent. Ms Money made a tough decision based on the facts that were presented and going according to what all the attorneys said had to vote for the removal.

You could see the agony on Ms Money's face as she cast her vote and the disappointment of not being able to have her question clarified. She tried, but was interrupted, and soon after Ms. Linblad called to question and discussion was ended.

I don't know what the right thing to do would have been in that situation. It was a tough decision, one I don't wish on anyone.

[Lucinda]

Aaron, I'm curious, have you researched the law yourself, the one that the city attorney claims gave council the right to 'regulate' it's membership?

If not, twist this whole issue around and look at it from a few sides, a couple of perspectives..... remembering you may be basing an opinion only on information presented to all of us by the council and city attorney. They are a flawed group therefore I expect the information to also be flawed.

Don't expect an answer, just want you to mull it over.

[Aaron Falotico]

Lucinda,

Like I said, the decision was made with the information provided.

[Lucinda]

And like I said, mull it over some more and ask yourself where the flaws are. Aside from the agony of the entire situation, it's also a interesting case of applied 'civics' - was that the law you saw practiced last night or someones interpertation of the law? If it was tested in court, who has the strong case and who has the weak case?

[Aaron Falotico]

Originally posted by Lucinda:
And like I said, mull it over some more and ask yourself where the flaws are. Aside from the agony of the entire situation, it's also a interesting case of applied 'civics' - was that the law you saw practiced last night or someones interpertation of the law? If it was tested in court, who has the strong case and who has the weak case?

What I saw last night was political manuevering and nothing really to do with the law at all.

Case law is something completely different and is usually based upon who can make the better argument, not necessarily the merits of the case. It is upon appeal that the merits of the case are seen without the passionate arguments.

It is hard to determine who would truly have the stronger case. Based on what the city attorney read with regards to the case that cited it was more along the lines of intent than actions. Arkansas law isn't real clear on a lot of things and the regulation of a legislative body is probably right there with tax laws. However the precedent of removing members from the legislative body by its fellow members is one that has been set in both the house and the senate of the United States.

This would be an interesting legal argument for Ms. Carroll as there isn't much if anything that is specific to City Councils and the removal of a member. The case they cited was about voting in one district over another, this was the removal of member of the legislative body.

The question now is what is next? What does Ward 1 do? What does the city council do? We are short representation from our Ward, with three months left before the next election. But when does the new city council actually take their seats?

[moontoo]

With less than 6 months of a term the council should appoint someone to fill out the term.

[Aaron Falotico]

Originally posted by moontoo:
With less than 6 months of a term the council should appoint someone to fill out the term.

I agree, but the key word is should.

Does the city council terms expire in January?

[moontoo]

It is the law that they will have to fill the empty council seat.

[gump]

If any town is close to having martial law declared ES sure is close to the top of the list.It would not be the first time look at past history. Being a small town does not exempt the action if enough out of control politics and other ?actions are going on. Never in my long career have I seen a city government out of control like this one. I feel like other people on here, where did common sense and loyalty to the whole community go. Just blowing off some steam but this is ridiculous.

[Lucinda]

Aaron, good points.

Were they legal in their action last night? If memory serves me, only Weaver gave the 'legal' opinion and 'confirmation' had yet to arrive from municipal league. Funny how it works - depending on who is calling you get a different answer...and if you ask a different question...you definately get opposing answers. Ask two lawyers and you may get two disparate replies. Ask and idiot and you may get garbage back.

If I were a 'yes' vote on that council, leaving my future in the hands of the city attorney in this case would leave me tossing and turning at night.

Tort immunity is not bullet proof.

[becauseican]

Aaron,
I bet Kathy already has someone in mind to
fill that seat!

As long as MEAN spirited people are running
this town, Eureka will not prosper!

I find it Quite Amusing that Kathy, Karen
and Bud thru around the word integrity, which none of them have!

[becauseican]

The Public should show up at the next meeting to voice their concerns about what
has happened. I would think they would be allowed to speak since Kathy allowed
Debbie Freesbe to speak. Remember that there is power by numbers.

[Andy McDonald]

Karen Linblad's double standard regarding the law and behavior at the council table would be funny if it were not so disgusting!!

[Lucinda]

I keeping asking myself, and anyone I talk to, if the civil liberties of the people of Eureka Springs have been violated. Instead of just asking and wondering, I'm going to find out.

[ghostlypresence]

Every citizen who has the power to vote surely understands, after such a shameful display of political injustice as displayed last night, the power they possess.

The City Council is obviously polarized and Mayor Harrison has consistently broken the tie in favor of the displeasure of most of the citizens residing inside the city.

With all of the council seats up for grabs in November, please remember and encourage all citizens to exercise this most important right we have as citizens of this country. Voter apathy is so rampant. Council members help appoint so many people to Commissions throughout the city such as the CAPC, HDC; Parks Commission, etc.

So many good people cannot vote who live outside the city limits. There so many good people who live inside the city limits won't run because of the many controversies, attacks on personalities, etc. Let's get out and recruit good, well-rounded, grounded, honest people. You need the good people first. Once you have the people chosen who the citizens believe can weather any storms that come their way, you've got a good chance to reach common ground and some real accomplishments.

Let's look forward to November and stop worrying about what this horribly ineffective city council in place is doing now, because come November, the citizens can easily wipe these people out with the whisk of a pencil!

[Lucinda]

Well said.

I challenge the legal authority of the city council to regulate the makeup of its own membership for any purpose and for any reason.

I challenge city council to provide the residents of Eureka Springs with the legal evidence which proves they have the legal authority attempted Monday night.

I challenge city attorney Tim Weaver to produce a written opinion proving advice given to council was sound and within the law.

I challenge Weaver to produce the written Municipal League opinion he referenced stating the email 'did not make it' to council 'in time' for Monday's meeting.

I contend Penny Carroll remains a legal, seated, elected offical of Eureka Springs, representing Ward 1, who can only be removed from council by a court of law or by a vote of the people.

Yes, use a pencil in November, but also use your power now. A lot can happen in Eureka Springs over 9 council meetings.

[JET]

Lucinda, Check the paper out. I think Tim Weavers wife is going to run for council.

[Lucinda]

OMG

[bborum]

Conflict of interest?

[becauseican]

so what if it is a conflict?
What is going to happen?

[gayle]

For all of you so "concerned with city council"...why are none of you running? There's still time...go on...put your money where your mouths are. Make the changes you so dearly want. Be the politician you so clearly want on city council. Make those changes where it counts, not on geekfest. What say you all?

"I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be; for I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances."
~ Martha Washington


[This message has been edited by gayle (edited 07-28-2004).]

[bborum]

Well, let's see, a conflict could negate any activities or set the council up for lawsuit. Based on the currect frame of mind of the people here, would be much better to get a neutral person and let tempers, hurt feelings and indignation die down.

[James DeVito]

The bias of the city attorney was all too evident at the council table. His citing of laws from other states had no bearing on the issue before them. In Arkansas if the law does not say you can do it, you can`t. State law says that the action of council to remove one of their members is to occur ONLY after a judge has ruled the action of the member in question has committed an offencethat constitutes malfeasance misfeaseance or nonfeasance.

[This message has been edited by James DeVito (edited 07-28-2004).]

[Kim]

Originally posted by gayle:
For all of you so "concerned with city council"...why are none of you running?

I know! I know! Pick me!!! [hand in air, jumping up and down]

Because of the same general principle that causes you to be concerned with George W. Bush? That general principle wherein wacky politicians cause problems in your life ... while you stand helplessly by ... trying your best to get the calcium-headed True Believers to WAKE UP and listen to you before it's too late?

OK. I think I win. Do I win? What do I win? Can I have a new car?

http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

[James DeVito]

Gayle, on our best day in Eureka Springs, we will not invade Canada. Butt out!

[Lucinda]

Okay, today many people have checked a number of legal opinions and the answer appears to be:

IF the council made a LEGAL vote Monday night, any number of residents, any single individual, as well as Penny Carroll personally, may claim the violation of Penny Carroll's civil liberties and particularly the violation of the civil liberties of the residents of Ward 1.

However, the question cannot be answered as to the legality of city council's actions because there is no instance in Arkansas legal history where city council has eliminated a member without first going through legal channels and by first seeking a judge's opinion.

Our city council, to quote James DeVito, has "now gone where no one has gone before".

This cannot be allowed to stand without a legal challenge - for our present - and for our future.

Any single resident of ES may consider filing suit against the city of ES and against those who voted "yes" personally. Any group of residents have legal standing.

The violation of any person's civil liberties is not a local or state offense, it is a federal offense. Tort immunity does not protect actions taken to deny civil liberty.

Penny Carroll remains a legal, seated representative of Ward 1. City council had no legal standing upon which to base its vote.

I have talked to Gayle Money and it is my opinion she has been misinformed by counsel and based her vote upon incomplete information.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 07-28-2004).]

[gayle]

Hey James....since you ARE running my comments were obviously not directed at you. I am as entitled to ask questions on this bulletin board as the next guy....and ask them I will. You don't intimidate me.

[becsflowers]

Is legal liability insurance provided to city council people by the city (while they serve on the city council), or are they responsible for obtaining their own?

[Two 6 Pac]

Well, well, well........ if it ain’t Boris and Natasha, the two spies that got left out in the cold.
Ain’t that special. You two haven’t been a watchin enough old “Get Smart” re-runs or else yud of knowd that the first lesson in “Wanna be a Spy 101" is to always be on the look out for bugs.

You two won’t never make double naught spies at this rate.

Although you might end up on “America’s Funniest Home Video’s”, “Stupid Pet Tricks”, Cops” or maybe that new reality show “I’ll Burn Anybody Includen My Friends For A Penny”, who knows you two might even make the big time and end up on “Court TV.”

Now wooden that be special?

[Lucinda]

Yep, 2 6 pac, it 'wood' be special. Court TV wasn't exactly what I had in mind but it's a thought. The ACLU is another thought, among others.

I know exactly what you are refering to with your 'bugs' comment. I doubt you do.

[Two 6 Pac]

Challenge it !

This is AR. not CA. Ha Ha

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 07-28-2004).]

[Lucinda]

Bill King, I'm listening to the Democratic National Convention and reading your words at the same time. I need a bit of hope in my life at this time.

Yes, ego is involved, and of course I'm going to praise an editorial I happen to agree with. But above and beyond all of that - personal opinions aside - with you or not - it was a good bit of writing.

"It's about who we are, what our values are, and what kind of country we live in" - John Edwards.

[Two 6 Pac]

"I need a bit of hope in my life at this time."


I bet!

[Lucinda]

Keep drinkin darlin, pat yourself on the back and convince yourself of your fantical, self rightoues indignitation. Keep repeating the same mantra - I am right I am right I am omnipotent.

As said by another poster, the fat lady has yet to begin.

[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 07-28-2004).]

[Two 6 Pac]

She's closer than you think! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I have bit my tongue and held back as long as I can stand. The gall of you and your Boy Friend to call Gayle a "Sewer Whore" well that did it. You have dug a hole so deep your only hope now is to hit gold!

Fight me, I'll chew you up and spit you out like old no good gum!

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 07-28-2004).]

[James DeVito]

I still can`t believe it. After all this town has been through in the last 15 years, arguing err debating over what constitutes residency. Having two judges try to rule on Eureka Springs residency, to no success, and the state legislature rewriting the state residency requirements in 2000, has still not produced clarity on the issue. Yet, somehow OUR city council has ruled on an ELECTED official and removed her from office. I never saw a constituent from Ward I petition council to have Alderman Carroll removed,except of course Ms. Lindblat.

[Two 6 Pac]

Cindy Akins

I never wanted to get involved in this crap. It didn't concern me and I certainly didn't have time for it. You however kept on!

Your last post under "You Know Who You Are" was nothing but lies. Just an attempt by you(after three months) to get me involved in something I wanted no part of. I attacked Bud just like you suggested!(per our taped telephone conversation, which was confirmed ,at your suggestion by Penny Carrol, also taped) But unlike you, I check facts first. When I attack it's all out, bare knuckle, no prisoners, scorched earth. So I kinda like to check first. I did check and I found out that "it didn't happen" it was nothing but lies on your part and on Penny Carrols. You used me, you used her, and unfortunately she paid. You have no one to blame but yourself!
You did it! Your overwhelming anger (for what I don't know) cost a person their job and their reputation.

You have no one to blame but yourself!


[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 07-28-2004).]

[Two 6 Pac]

That's it JAMES try to change the subject back to residency. Try ethics!

[Kim]

Children? Shall we try to resolve this dispute with a game of dodgeball before nappie time?

[Two 6 Pac]

Would you like to hear the tapes before the papers?

[Kim]

No, actually. What I would like is for everybody to get a *&*! GRIP!!!

And yes, as a matter of fact, I would like fries with that.

[Two 6 Pac]

No fries, CHIPS!

[Kim]

Cheezborger, cheezborger!

[Almost Perspicacious]

When the informative meeting was held at the city Auditorium about the potential change to the City Administrator form of government a person got up and accused those promoting the change of being VICIOUS and SELFISH people. After watching the City Council meeting this week I have to conclude that the wrong group of people was labelled as vicious and selfish.

I thought that the attacks on Penny Carroll were particularly vicious and selfish. I haven't seen such inhumane (if not inhuman)
behavior for a long, long time!!

[Two 6 Pac]

Well first AP that wasn't a person! (in the earthly sense that is) second, how dare you call people other the the author's of this intire mess "inhumane"

Sorry AP I forgot one other little thing to mention, "Get You Freaken Head Out Of Your Freaken Butt and look at what's happening around you and whos behind it all"

Sorry AP. They just have me mad!

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 07-28-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 07-28-2004).]

[Two 6 Pac]

Nite Kim! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Shimaka]

Penny Carroll is one of the most dedicated and responsible public servants I have had the pleasure to know in my lifetime. I do not believe I am alone in this assessment of Ms. Carroll as an Alderperson.

This administration has, systematically, with malice and forethought, gotten rid of every person who stood in the way of the administration's goals, no matter what the position of the person that was standing in the way or the reason.

This has been the case for the last two administrations - the current one taking lessons from the former. I have watched good people's lives and reputations destroyed for the sole purpose of the administration achieving its goals.

The only people who have tried to do something to stem the flow of the blood let have been vilified, and continue to be attacked here, and in every other public venue that can be found, even though they lost their bid.

I think it is high time that the People for whom the administration supposedly acts take matters into their own hands. No, I am not suggesting we burn down City Hall and tar & feather the three most responsible for the ruination of this city and its government as well as its main source of economic renewal and overall income.

However, I do believe it's time that a group of citizens get together and take legal action against the administration and the sheople council members who have helped to achieve the admin's goals so that we do not have to wait another 2 years plus in order to regain control of our town. And, while we're at it, I think the so-called city attorney should be included in these legal actions as well.

I am not saying that I have the money to initiate said legal action, and at current, I don't have the legal standing, but that won't stop me from helping in any way possible those who would bring about such proceedings. Please, someone with both the money and the cajones to stop this, and not be afraid of the mayor in the process, step in and start the process. I have every confidence that you will have people flocking to back you up. And, for those of you who DO have legal standing, but do not have the money to start anything, I would contact the Arkansas Municipal League and let them know what has been going on in this town. I would guess they haven't a clue. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last. But, I think the future of Eureka Springs is worth the possibility of being wrong, as small as it is.

Thank you for listening.
Shimaka

[Aaron Falotico]

Enough already! I have not seen so many "sue happy" people in my life! Let's say legal action of some sort is taken. After 10-12 years when the case is all said and done, will it really matter? Will the lives of the people who live in Eureka be better off or the people directly involved? How much money would have to be spent?

Who knows if there is truly legal ground to stand on, and as far as civil liberties go give me a break. Someone could look at you wrong and they might be in violation of your civil liberties. Tourists coming to town could say anyone who offers a discount to locals is violating their civil liberties!

Can we move forward? If you want to make a difference then vote for the people who are running for city council in your ward that represent your ideals. Excuse me for saying this but neither Penny nor Karen represent me and I would not vote for either one in the upcoming election. Neither one of them are very good civil servants. If you consider either one of them the best civil servants you have ever had the pleasure to know, then travel! Visit other towns and meet there elected officials and city employees. There are a ton of people 100 times better civil servants, people who have the interest of their populace at heart and do everything in their power to ensure the people are able to survive.

The council is full of people who are angry, self interested, or do not know the word compromise to name a few things. Is any of this going to help the people of Eureka, especially with the impending energy crisis, or has no one noticed the price of oil going up!

The economy is down across the nation, it is a trend whenever there is a Presidential election, but that topped with oil skyrocketing once again doesn't help. We need solutions to help the people of Eureka, all the people of Eureka.

I would like to see the repeal of city sales tax on all unprepared food sold at Grocery stores in the town, like Hart's, Eureka Market, and Eggs For Sale to name a few. The city has recently increase who collects sales tax when the state did, and this will help the local population afford a basic necessity, food! It may not be much, but it is a start.

I would also like to see a public investigation into Public Works. Specifically all the projects they have going on and why. As well as a detailed cost analysis of the proposed replacement of the treatment plant. I am not satisfied that the city can afford it. It doesn't make sense to jump into a remodel when the money isn't there, and without loans.

I would also like to see the city, including Public Works stay open all day, that means from 12-1 someone is able to answer the phone or be in city hall to conduct city business. Sorry if someone has to take lunch separate from everyone else, work out a schedule.

The last thing I would like to see is a clear definition for the CAPC. Is the CAPC a tax collection commission or an advertising and promotion commission. Are we getting the best advertising and promotion of the city for the tax revenue collected? If we go to an outside advertising agency why do we need a CAPC?

We moved here for the quality of life and peace and serenity. There is an energy in this town that fosters creativity and freethinking. Let's work together to promote this, as I have heard others say the same thing as to why they moved here, as well as creating a sustainable living for everyone of the citizens of Eureka.

[Bzarsatori]

Two 6 Pac

You mentioned DeVitoAkins referring to Alderman Money az a "sewer whore" Although, I had read that late that night, I failed to copy it. If you have a copy, would you pleaze email that to me to add to my collection? Either Kim or them had removed it by morning. thank you.

Also, I'm sorry that you trusted Lucinda. I should have warned you, but we never spoke enough. Your efforts are greatly appreciated. satori@cox-internet.com

Aaron, you're up late. good observations. there iz more info available on those topics of uncertainty.

[Two 6 Pac]

Well, well, well..............if it’s not the night-mayor or should I say nightmare!

Just because we find ourselves on the same side of the fence on this issue doesn’t put you on the top of my Christmas Card list. I still have a lot of issues with your administration.. If you wouldn’t have been so into your crown and flowing robes and instead doing the job you were elected to do this town wouldn’t be facing a lot of the issues it’s facing now.

I always thought it “couldn’t happen to nicer bunch”, but either side try dragging me into some kind of crap will prove to be a major damn mistake. Give this town a chance for crying out loud!

Oh, I’ve got a copy!

[Lucinda]

Well you miss a lot when you go to bed early.

First: 2 Six pak. Until this morning I did not know who you are therefore my replies were directed to someone else.

Second: I do not care if you have taped every one of our conversations and play them to the entire town. I don't care if either newspaper reports on this, however I doubt they will. If they do, and don't do so accurately, well, I keep almost everything also.

THIRD: You may well be basing your opinion on the truth from people who couldn't spot the truth if it ran over them.

FOURTH: The only person I care about thinking I might have made that post is Gayle Money.

FIFTH: What happened to you at the hands of public officials and employees not only did concern you but it still concerns everyone who lives here - because as I have said to you before, if they can do it to you, they can and will do it to others.

LAST: You got what you wanted (and needed) from the city out of the whole deal, so what is your problem? You can remove yourself from this forever by simply walking away. Or you can stay involved - that is your choice.

If city council voted to remove Penny Carroll in part based upon your tape recording then they have really screwed up.

[Lucinda]

This letter to council is, in part, a reason I'm being attacked. And it gets this thread back on topic.

----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy Akins
To: Karen Lindblad ; Bud Umland ; Bill Ott ; Butch Berry ; Gayle Money ; Penny Carroll ; Mayor
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Ward One


Date: July 28, 2004

To: Mayor Harrison
Alderman Carroll
Alderman Lindblad
Alderman Umland
Alderman Ott
Alderman Berry
Alderman Money

Dear Mayor and Council,

As a registered voter and resident of Eureka Springs I am protesting your attempt to remove Penny Carroll from her legally held position as a seated Alderperson representing Ward One and every resident of Eureka Springs. I believe you did not have the authority and thus moved and voted to violate the rights of each resident of Eureka Springs.

You did not prove you have the legal authority to regulate your own membership. City Attorney Tim Weaver did not provide counsel or sufficient documentation and evidence to render a legal opinion regarding your ability to remove Alderman Carroll - having the direct result of influencing your vote.

You provided no facts or evidence other than hearsay, personal opinion, third hand testimony, and malicious gossip to make the case Alderman Carroll changed her legal residence. You placed the city of Eureka Springs and yourselves in a position of liability by allowing such conduct and third-party evidence to be entered into the record and used to influence and determine your vote. You allowed a city commission chair and elected city clerk to provide on the record third party testimony with the seeming result of influencing and determining your vote. All resulting in a vote I am advised was illegal.

I strongly urge you to reconsider your actions of July 26, 2004 and correct your mistakes and/or errors in judgments post haste. Please attempt to further avoid serious, damaging, and long lasting effects upon the futures of the residents of Eureka Springs.

[just wondering]

WOW!!! "I would like to see the repeal of city sales tax on all unprepared food-". At last someone is talking about the real issues in this town!!!

[just wondering]

Am I dreaming? Something must be wrong? Is this the start of a Boston Tea Party? Did I read this right? "--why do we need a CAPC?" We don't!!!!!!

[Two 6 Pac]

Then this ends any fight between the two of us!

Do what you want, fight hard, that's your right!

Just pleaase do it without me and mine!

Thats all I ask! Like I've told the Mayor and everyone else, Just Leave Me Alone!

I'm greatfull for the help you originaly provide. I let you know that, I really did!

But to try dragging me into a fight I didn't want to be involved in is what got me so mad. Both sides: Leave Me Alone!

[Lucinda]

Truce then and I'm sorry I made you mad. I did not even know I made you mad.

But, I'll say this as gently as I know how....as long as you live here and as long as those people are running things, you are still involved because they will affect you again, in one way, another way, or everyway. A lot of people are suffering, not just you.

I will leave you alone, but if you ever change your mind you know who to call.

[Two 6 Pac]

Well that's just skippy!

And Beau, NO You Can't Have A Copy!


Lucky me I don't live. I don't vote here so I shouldn't have any say in anything that happens here. That's why I keep saying,

LEAVE ME ALONE !

[This message has been edited by Two 6 Pac (edited 07-29-2004).]