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Keith
10-20-2003, 02:56 PM
Hey - I am excited about the inquiries that are piling in about the November Diversity Weekend. http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

However, all we really know is that we have ULTRA SUEDE headlining that Saturday Night, November 8th. BIG FUN! They play 70's, 80's, 90's disco, dance rock, and funk! THEY ARE AWESOME TOO! AND LOVE DIVERSITY WEEKEND in Eureka Springs!! We will have our regularly scheduled Karaoke on the 6th & 7th.

For the whole scoop on the weekend and what all is going on everywhere with it, we are defering to the PIM gals and to Lita at the Copa! Hats off to Lita for picking up the ball and running with this.

Party On!

Deborah
10-20-2003, 04:00 PM
keith,
is anyone doing any kind of major publicity for DV weekends now??
anyone doing a big mailing?
email and/or snail mail?

i too, have been referring people to:

http://www.eurekasprings.com/alternative
just click on "Calendar of Events" link.
then choose whatever month ur interested in.
but keep in mind, people are sooo slow at putting in their listing & info.
so check back from time to time to see if somebody added an event. and not just on Diversity Weekends. for example, in February there is a diversity Valentine's Dinner Dance for GLBT's & PFLAG's, but it's not one of the regular DV weekends.

i think jan & kim's site is a constant in our community. if people get used to going there, it won't matter who or what biz/org is doing any kind of Diversity Event, u can find out about it on their "Calendar" Link!
deborah

Keith
10-21-2003, 07:18 AM
Deborah,

At the beginning of this year, the events seemed to be getting truly organized in the sense that it had a group ready to formally publicize and promote it. MANY of the town businesses chipped in to fund the effort.

I do not know the status of the formal effort that was being made - I do know the ball was dropped and Lita picked it up and ran with it, without additional funding. PIM also has done a lot without additional compensation. These are all great gals, and should be commended for their effort in keeping together what could be one of the last tourist events of the season.

So... http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I defer your question to them - as they know what mailing and promotion actually took place. All I know, is folks are contacting us about our offerings that weekend - and that is a good sign!

Lita
10-21-2003, 11:12 AM
Hi Deborah,

The persons which took over Diversity weekend after Vivian and Mary, collected money from MANY sponsors. The money collected was to pay for our advertising and the coordination of this years Diversity weekends. Nothing was done. No advertising, no NOTHING ! I was made the main contact person at eurekapride.com , but there is no info on the website as far as events etc. I have since been answering emails for months, trying to let people know there will still be Diversity weekends in Eureka. I do know of groups from Joplin, Springfield, Tulsa, Kansas City and Little Rock who will be here.

Trying to handle the Club, plus work on Diversity has been stressful. I love coordinating events, but I have felt a little overwhelmed with all of this. I have asked diffrent individuals in Eureka to please help with this. After we get through this next Diversity weekend, we will all get our heads together and each person/ persons will have certain areas to handle, to make it more organized, and more informative to our Diversity guests. I will be putting out sign up sheets on the tables at the Copa Nov. 7th, and 8th, so they may sign up for a mailing list. This way, we can keep our guests updated on new events and special happenings through out the year.

We ARE working on it. So far, going by all of the emails I have answered, this will be a succesful Diversity weekend in November.

Also, it will take money to keep a new website up and running. So, to all of you sponsors out there, we must come up with the money again to keep this ball rolling. We really are in need of ONE website, strictly for Diversity, to keep everyone updated on events, etc.

Thanks Keith.........Glad to hear you got Ultra Suede for that weekend !

If there are any other business owners out there whom have discounts, or will be doing a special event, PLEASE call Karen at Positive Idea.....253-2401... and let her know what you have to offer and she will get it on the Diversity weekend Calendar of Events.

Thank you,

Lita Braswell
www.copacabanaclub.com (http://www.copacabanaclub.com)

moontoo
10-21-2003, 11:41 AM
The CAPC should help with this event as it brings many people to Eureka. Also with the right promotion more would come. Does the CAPC help at all?

kernicerus
10-22-2003, 12:27 AM
How many diversity weekends are there a year?I thought there was just one.

Cyberphillics
10-22-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by moontoo:
Does the CAPC help at all?

L.M.A.O.

Keith
10-22-2003, 09:15 AM
Originally I think there was just the Fall event. The first full weekend in November. Then, there was a Spring and Fall. And the effort this year was to add a 3rd, late summer.

I am really a proponent of just the one - at the most 2. 3 is overkill (again, my opinion.) People who drive Volkswagens can come to town whenever they want and enjoy our regularly scheduled tourism highlights without being discriminated against because they happen to drive a small car http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. But 3 VW Weekends would just dilute the attraction of a VW Weekend and a grand event. Does that make sense.

EurekaRebel
10-22-2003, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by kernicerus:
How many diversity weekends are there a year?I thought there was just one.

Why must there be 3-4 per year?? I agree with Keith in that it dilutes the attraction.

I sure don't mind having one per year, but 3-4 is definitely an overkill. I imagine it deters other tourists from visiting during diversity. This IS the Bible Belt and not everyone approves of diversity.

Lita
10-22-2003, 12:40 PM
Diversity weekend has always been the first weekend in April and the first weekend of November. (Spring and Fall Diversitys). The two people who previously took it over for this year, planned the one for September. We knew people had already planned on coming to Eureka for it, so we kept it going for that weekend. I like having the 2 Diversity weekends in the Spring and Fall. It is CONSISTENT, always has been. People plan for these two weekends EVERY YEAR. I personally would like to keep it in the Spring and Fall. There are many tourists that could not afford to come to Eureka three times a year, much less be able to get off work.

EurekaRebel
10-22-2003, 05:07 PM
I still think One Diversity Weekend is Enough ! Just my opinion.

mothers_daughter
10-23-2003, 08:27 AM
I think one a year is enough, too.

Lita
10-23-2003, 09:26 AM
If you don't mind me asking,

Why do you only want one Diversity weekend, when it has been proven year after year Diversity weekends (both of them), bring LOTS of people to Eureka Springs to spend money ? Just curious.

Mishey
10-23-2003, 03:05 PM
Well I must agree I think there should be only one a year if any.Why is it called Diversity weekend anyway? Diversity means all kinds of people of all different cultures which is in everyday life.If gay people are so proud of this weekend and feel as if their lifestyle should be "celebrated" why is it not called Gay Pride weekend or whatever? Not all of us have to agree with what goes on around in this town and we are entitled to our own opinions and each to their own I am just stating mine.And another thing so what if it brings money, money isn't everything ones morals should be, I guess it just depends on who you are and whats important in ones life.



[This message has been edited by Mishey (edited 10-23-2003).]

EurekaRebel
10-23-2003, 04:18 PM
Mishey,

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[This message has been edited by EurekaRebel (edited 10-23-2003).]

snowdiva
10-23-2003, 06:16 PM
I like this little old saying....Leave the judging up to Me, I do it best...love GOD.....

Mishey
10-23-2003, 07:39 PM
Amen!

gayle
10-23-2003, 08:45 PM
I believe that directed at you mishy....judge not lest you be judged....get it?

ArkansawHillbillys
10-23-2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by gayle:
I believe that directed at you mishy....judge not lest you be judged....get it?

I too agree with that quote from the Bible. However, Gayle, by saying the aforementioned quote is directed at Mishy, aren't we in essence judging her? I can't speak for her and I wouldn't, but I took what Mishy said to mean that in "her" opinion there should be just one diversity weekend and that in "her" opinion there were moral issues to be considered. Moral issues are usually related to scriptural thinking, thus should not be taken as being judgmental just because it is one's religious belief or thinking. Mishy has the right to have her moral convictions and the way she feels about diversity and other issues, just as I have the right to feel a certain way about the same issues.

Peace to all and Have A great Day!

Lita
10-24-2003, 02:16 AM
Who's morals ?

It seems this whole town has a different set of morals. I guess it depends on what you were brought up to beleive. Growing up, my dad was an Assembly of God Minister for 18 years. BUT, one thing he taught me and my family, is to judge NO ONE. Thanks Dad.

I guess this goes along with the theme of Diversity. We are all different.
If we all thought alike, and acted alike, it would be a pretty boreing world.

lucyloose
10-24-2003, 06:12 AM
Being a "diverse" person myself,I like having 2 weekends a year.We are only able to attend once a year but like being able to choice spring or fall. Thanks Lita for keeping the ball going.You deserve a big KUDOS for all of your hard work.We will be at the Copa in Nov. and look forward to meeting you.

Mishey
10-24-2003, 06:42 AM
Hello..........I wasn't judging anyone I was stating my opinion on how I feel about "Diveristy" weekend.Just because some of you feel alright with it doesn't mean everyone else has to.Did I say anyone was going to burn in hell for this? No I did not.Everyone has their on beleifs,you have yours and I have mine.

Uh Gayle, yes I get it...Amen is to the fact God is the one we all should be worried about judging one another.

Some of you people just crack me up, you complain "judge" about bikers,the mayor,capc
but when it comes to other topics such as like this one boy nobody can make an OPIONION!

Cris Dunnam
10-24-2003, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:
Moral issues are usually related to scriptural thinking, thus should not be taken as being judgmental just because it is one's religious belief or thinking.

Two weekends sound about right to me. Aren’t there two Art’s & Crafts weekends here? At least, I seem to recall there was at one time.

I would think that morality is not solely defined by christian scripture. Morality is social in nature - often defined by any number of religions. It's considered immoral for muslim women to show any skin in public. Not all anglo-christian faiths consider there to be a moral issue with a "diverse lifestyle." If morality is the guideline for commerce here, then we should also debate VW weekend since it was a car designed by Nazis. Yeah, that sounds fair - NOT.

Speaking of Nazi's, I remember many years ago when the American White Power Nazi National (or whatever they called themselves) convention came to Inn of the Ozarks. There were a lot of people here that were against it - many peaceful protests. No one stopped it. I of O didn't book the convention because the believed in the cause - but they believed in filling their hotel & convention center for the weekend. I should say to my knowledge, they never came back. Apparently, there wasn't the support here they had hoped. As morality goes, I think these people have a much more offensive position in this world than anyone with a "diverse" inclination.

In 1991 - 92 I remember a very desperate for reelection George H.W. Bush touting the contributions and importance of the "Top 2%" wage earners in this country. Clearly trying to suck up to big campaign contributors for support. That line of rhetoric stopped cold when a report hit the national news that the majority of the aforementioned "top 2%" were affluent, successful & long-term monogamous relationship gay or lesbian business people. That rounded out to roughly 1% of tax payers who were paying about 23% more in taxes than the average wage earner.

What the heck is my point? I guess it's that there are more "diverse" people in Eureka than Nazis and that "diverse" people have a history of spending good amounts of well earned cash while here. Any group willing to have a good time, not cause trouble & spend money should be allowed to have 2 weekends here.

Eureka Springs is the kind of town where there is room for 2 diversity weekends AND a Bluegrass Festival. Perhaps not on the SAME weekend, however.

(=== I just realized that in my little rant here I might make some people think that I was equating strong Christian beliefs with being a Nazi. Not so. Two completely different thoughts, widely unrelated in my mini-essay. Most Christians are very good people, with very good hearts; I would never label any group for the actions of a minority. So to be clear, Most Nazis are Christians, but the majority of Christians ARE NOT Nazis. ===)

Keith
10-24-2003, 07:57 AM
Lita, I never expected this to become the "Diversity Weekend Defense Rally" - You are doing a GREAT job - and that weekend is looking to be a success because of your efforts.

gayle
10-24-2003, 08:12 AM
Keith,
For my part in turning this into a "defend diversity" thread I apologize. I guess after so many years of listening to so called devout christians rant about morals in their sanctimonious ways I just tend to jump on anything these days. It irks me, while I go about in my life, loving the person I love, to watch news clips of "christians", such as those who belong to the Phelps clan, wave signs saying "God hates fags" outside a church where a grieving family mourns their battered and murdered son. These people are so busy teaching their children how and who to hate it's a wonder they have time left over to preach morals to anyone else! The God who reigns over my world is crying and ashamed.
I've yet to be able to attend either diversity event, so I can't speak with first hand knowledge of how sucessfull they are. I'm hoping to be able to attend the one in April however. My times in Eureka usually happen shortly after and between both events.
Enjoy diversity everyone! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Gayle

Cris Dunnam
10-24-2003, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Keith:
Lita, I never expected this to become the "Diversity Weekend Defense Rally" - You are doing a GREAT job - and that weekend is looking to be a success because of your efforts.

Very good point, Keith.

I too fell into the trap of "defending diversity." This thread was started as information & promotion of the event(s), not a debate.

UltraSuede kicks butt and deversity aside, I will be there! That is, if the wife let's me.

RUBYTUESDAY
10-24-2003, 09:15 AM
Laura Love is performing at The Auditorium on Friday night, November 7th at 8pm, tickets are $15. Check her out online at www.lauralove.net (http://www.lauralove.net)

ArkansawHillbillys
10-24-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by gayle:
Keith,
For my part in turning this into a "defend diversity" thread I apologize. I guess after so many years of listening to so called devout christians rant about morals in their sanctimonious ways I just tend to jump on anything these days. It irks me, while I go about in my life, loving the person I love, to watch news clips of "christians", such as those who belong to the Phelps clan, wave signs saying "God hates fags" outside a church where a grieving family mourns their battered and murdered son. These people are so busy teaching their children how and who to hate it's a wonder they have time left over to preach morals to anyone else! The God who reigns over my world is crying and ashamed.
I've yet to be able to attend either diversity event, so I can't speak with first hand knowledge of how sucessfull they are. I'm hoping to be able to attend the one in April however. My times in Eureka usually happen shortly after and between both events.
Enjoy diversity everyone! http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Gayle

Lets see if I can put this in a "kind" way without offending anyone here. Cris, I agree that "morals" are not completely religiously based. I don't think that was the point. The point was that Mishy, me, you, or anyone else has the right to have and practice "their" morals as they feel they should or want to, regardless if those morals are religiously based or as a result of their self-imposed concepts of right and wrong.

Lita, when you say whose morals, I take the remark to mean literally just that. I have mine. You have yours and everyone else has theirs also. Mishy has a right to hers as does everyone else. They also have a right to voice their opinions based on those morals, though I prefer when someone does so, that they make it clear that these are "their" morals and that they are not trying to force them on me. I don't think anyone was trying to force their morals on any of us here. At least I didn't take it that way. Personally I don't care if there are five diversity weekends a month in Eureka. Though I believe in the over-kill theory for any special event. My wife and I, as everyone knows, are diversity-social.
Diversity, by my understanding of the definition includes not only gay people, but those of all walks of life, including different races and religions.

Now on the topic of religion. Which brings me to Gayle's post here.

She says, "I guess after so many years of listening to so called devout christians rant about morals in their sanctimonious ways I just tend to jump on anything these days."

I could be easily offended by that remark because I am a very religious person that believes in God, Loves God, and knows that God will be the one I answer to when I die, not only about the way I have lived my life but how I posted on this board even. "There is none perfect..no not one!" However, I realize many Christians have been guilty of offending others in this world because they did NOT live the "perfect" Christian life and set the perfect Christian example for others. They did not practice what they preached! It is not an easy task to be a good Christian. I know. However, because one does not believe in God, or perhaps just doesn't believe in the teachings of Christianity, does not give them the right to bash those that do, regardless of the weekness of those Christians. As for those "Christians" that wave signs, "God Hates Fags" I truly agree with you that this is WRONG! Regardless of what Christian teachings are concerning homosexuality, I do not view such actions as being Christian. The KKK waves the same signs and we all know what else they stand for. I have to wonder, if a group professing to be Christian and waving Fag signs in public, are really a Christian based organization. The only time I have ever seen this happen was in Houston, Texas in the 70's when the Jehova Witnesses had a crusade to rid Houston of it gay population. The rally lasted less than a day as many heterosexual Christians saw it as less than a desirable way to voice opposition to what some saw as sin. The action was denounced by the non-denominational alliances of churches who made it clear they were not supporting homosexual conduct but didn't believe the method of witness was Christian based.

Have A Great Day!


[This message has been edited by ArkansawHillbillys (edited 10-24-2003).]

Mishey
10-24-2003, 02:09 PM
I know a few gay people and they are really nice people but I don't have to beleive in how they live thier lives,how they choose to live is up to them. I will tell you that in my up bringing that the bible teaches that it is wrong and it is written so I don't intend to sound mean, I am not full of hate, I am just stating that all people don't have to beleive in the same thing.

mothers_daughter
10-24-2003, 05:27 PM
I think one diversity week-end is enough, and actually one is too many! The diversity people, as they choose to call themselves, instead of gays and lesbians, (which I admit, diversity sounds alot better) probably spend alot of money in bars, such as the copa, where they all meet and do their thing, whatever that may be. I don't like the idea of 3 week-ends a year, because its not good advertising for Eureka, we need all kinds of people here not just the gays and lesbians, I hardly think that you could compare that to an arts and crafts fair! Of course it may take some skill in doing some of the things they do, I don't think its in the same catagory as arts and crafts! I would take my kids to an arts and crafts show, but I sure wouldn't want them near a place that condons your so called diversity week ends! Just MY opinon!

frumious Bandersnatch
10-24-2003, 05:34 PM
Be careful about the places you label as "condoning" A LOT of those arts and crafts stores, as well as restaraunts, b & b's, hotels, etc... are those "diverse" people!

Lita??? What are you letting go on in the Copa??? Who's doing their "thing"???

Too Funny!

http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

mothers_daughter
10-24-2003, 05:48 PM
I didn't say STORES, I said arts and crafts fairs and shows, I am well aware of the shops, and other businesses that are owned and operated by the so called "diversity folks", and I also didn't just pin point the Copa. I said, places such as the Copa.

Cris Dunnam
10-24-2003, 07:21 PM
Ahem, uh so . . .

UltraSuede is a really great band and everyone should go see them if you get the chance.

James DeVito
10-24-2003, 09:02 PM
What a shame its almost 2004 and some "people" still don`t get it.

ArkansawHillbillys
10-24-2003, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by James DeVito:
What a shame its almost 2004 and some "people" still don`t get it.

Don't get what James? What is your point?

EurekaRebel
10-24-2003, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by mothers_daughter:
I think one diversity week-end is enough, and actually one is too many!

.... probably spend alot of money in bars, such as the copa, where they all meet and do their thing, whatever that may be.

I don't like the idea of 3 week-ends a year, because its not good advertising for Eureka, we need all kinds of people here not just the gays and lesbians,

I hardly think that you could compare that to an arts and crafts fair!

Again, I concur.

You have made some valid points, but Devito, and others, still think we should ALL approve of the alternative lifestyle.

I don't care how many gay/lesbian weekends you have; to some this concept is still foreign. Last I heard, we are still able to think for ourselves and have our own opionions on such matters.

Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

We can always visit Branson during DW or stay home!

I still think ONE Diversity Weekend is more than enough.

Kim Yonkee
10-24-2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Mishey:
Some of you people just crack me up, you complain "judge" about bikers,the mayor,capc but when it comes to other topics such as like this one boy nobody can make an OPIONION!

You know, Mishey. I've been thinking about this statement and it seems to me like you say "people ought to focus more on morals than on making money." Lucinda has been saying, "People ought to focus more on morals than on spending money." It seems like both topics, and their proponents, get a fairly equal amount of beating. So I'm thinking here ... it must not be the TOPIC, it must be the mere fact of having an opinion. Any opinion.

Hence, I'm going to play it safe. I'm not going to waffle around and pretend like what I say is a mere opinion. I’m going to issue stern moral edicts and merciless demands. To wit:

Merciless Demand Number One: I want my own festival. I want to forget all this bosh about tolerance and cultural diversity. I want a festival that celebrates my Geekfest persona.

I’m thinking of Self-righteous Sanctimony and Hypocritical Moral Judgment Weekend as a working title. What!?! You were thinking that I’m in denial about my tendency to spout reams of critical nonsense about every possible topic? Nah … I know I do that. But one of the really nice things about being stern and merciless is that I can admit it … even, in this case, celebrate it.

I’ve got the whole self-righteous, judgmental sanctimony thing down. I don’t have to worry about morals and hypocrisy. Whether I am moral, or not, hypocritical, or not, is always defined by someone other than me. So the only problems that I see are--one: the festival name is too long to fit on a t-shirt; and two: I will probably be the only attendee.

If I can’t have what I really want, move on to Merciless Demand Number Two: A genuine Diversity weekend that celebrates true cultural diversity. I see … Spring Street filled with women in Burkas. Hotels advertising multi-wife suites on their marquees. Discreet coverings over the pig images on the signs of local BBQ restaurants. Liquor store and bar owners herded to Basin Park for a festive public stoning.

Too much? OK. Fall back to my primary governing Edict: No 6’6” man who looks better than I do in a g-string should be permitted to walk the streets of our fair city. (If the man looks better in a g-string AND wears more mascara than me, I’d really like ya’ll to reconsider that festive public stoning.)

This whole Diversity Weekend thing is ridiculous. A bunch of people celebrating the gay lifestyle … and what IS that? The gay lifestyle? I’ve looked at the calendar and I do not see one single seminar on Laundry: the Gay Way. For that matter, I do not see one single festival that celebrates the straight lifestyle. Do straight people HAVE no style? How ridiculous! That can’t possibly be the answer.

Oh, and one more thing.

We keep having these festivals that fill the town with practicing homosexuals. Practice, practice, practice…. What is this? We’re the bush leagues? How many more times are we going to have to do this before we stop courting those practicing homosexuals and start attracting some real pros?

http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

soulself
10-24-2003, 11:16 PM
“I know a few gay people and they are really nice people but I don't have to beleive in how they live thier lives,how they choose to live is up to them. I will tell you that in my up bringing that the bible teaches that it is wrong and it is written so I don't intend to sound mean, I am not full of hate, I am just stating that all people don't have to beleive in the same thing.”

Well said Mishey, You are so right. How they choose to live IS up to them.
But, I believe it is also up to God.

In my up bringing, my elders stressed their interpretation of the bible. What has been written was written by people, not God.

The people have been spouting off, literally since the beginning of time. So how could they possibly have known God any better than you or I. I was invited to have a personal relationship with Jesus and that is what I have. I am sure you have as well, Mishey. Try to look through the prejudices of those in our past and learn from them, as I am sure God expects us to. Maybe that is the true meaning of “the word of God.”

I think that anyone who knows God, knows that we are given this gift of love to share. People can love each other... the God I know is proud of that.

How I express that love to another is between myself and the one I love. You don’t have to “believe in how I live” belief should be in God and the life he has chosen for us to live. That is an important responsibility.

Just a thought.



[This message has been edited by soulself (edited 10-25-2003).]

gayle
10-25-2003, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by mothers_daughter:
I think one diversity week-end is enough, and actually one is too many! The diversity people, as they choose to call themselves, instead of gays and lesbians, (which I admit, diversity sounds alot better) probably spend alot of money in bars, such as the copa, where they all meet and do their thing, whatever that may be.

Of course it may take some skill in doing some of the things they do, I don't think its in the same catagory as arts and crafts! !

Just wondering what "doing their thing" could possible mean?????? Does it take more skill for a gay or lesbian to lift a drink than it does for a "so called" straight person????? http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif Do gay and lesbian people not make arts and crafts????? Or do we do something a whole lot more skillful???? Perhaps instead of arts and crafts we make fine art??? That would be more skillful I guess.

really.....what rock are people hiding under???? You just keep hiding your children under the same rock people, and let them grow up to be ignorant too.

[This message has been edited by gayle (edited 10-25-2003).]

Lucinda
10-25-2003, 07:57 AM
"These people are so busy teaching their children how and who to hate it's a wonder they have time left over to preach morals to anyone else! The God who reigns over my world is crying and ashamed." - Gayle

Some of you people just crack me up, you complain "judge" about bikers,the mayor,capc
but when it comes to other topics such as like this one boy nobody can make an OPIONION! - Mishey

Mishey - you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You seem to know where you learned your opinons, but, do you ever question the truths behind those teachings? I question my own opinions, and why I have them, almost daily.

Moral concepts are often driven by scriptural teachings - but in this context, I assume Arkansas Hillbilly was referring to the Judea-Christian bible. I’d be curious to know how many other religions employ that Christian knack for picking bits and pieces of their holy book to formulate attacks on homosexuals? (It’s rare to find Jews going on and on about it the way Christian’s can.)

I’ve spent time over the years trying to analyze why I’ve never had issues with homosexuality. My conclusion is: I was never schooled in that particular discrimination.

Constant church and Sunday school sessions definitely helped to formulate my own set of “morals”. But, I’d honestly give my parents more credit for my moral structure than religious teaching.

They wouldn’t have dreamed of preaching to me as a kid about the sins of homosexuality – partially because they/we were almost completely unexposed to gays while I was growing up. It didn’t factor into their consciousness. Thank God for that – because it’s not a prejudice I wanted to be taught.

I wonder what the national perception could be regarding gays IF Christian religion had stayed out of the entire debate. I believe more parents infect their children with anti-gay sentiment primarily because of religious “teachings”. The other factor is the old “hate them because they’re not like us.”

What Mom & Dad did help me learn – by dragging me to multiple churches as a military family – is to formulate a real prejudice against organized religion.

Growing up in the 50’s and 60’s I remember quite a few “sins” shoved down my throat by pastors, Sunday school teachers and the devout congregation. Among them “the war in Vietnam is just because God says so”, “Blacks and other races are not the same as us because God says so”, “Everyone on the planet is going to hell except Baptists”, etc. I’m sure I heard the diatribe against gays, but since I didn’t know what “gay” was, had nothing to relate the prejudice to, it just didn’t sink in. Again, thank you God.

When I started to think for myself, and as time proved so many of these “sins” so terribly wrong, I decided the real enemy was the sanctimonious teaching of a religion practiced by a majority who were exclusive, not inclusive. Then I had the complicated task of sifting through everything I’d learned to find what I considered to be the truths and lies learned from my “religious upbringing”.

I love God and have my own set of beliefs as a result. But, I question those beliefs constantly - God gave us a brain to use and reasoning to test and faith to accept what cannot be proved.

God loves African-Americans, Buddhists, war-protestors and gays equally – and yes, Catholics and Baptists....I guess. I don’t believe he excludes anyone and I’m relatively sure it says THAT in the Bible.



[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 10-25-2003).]

EurekaRebel
10-25-2003, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by gayle:
Just wondering what "doing their thing" could possible mean??????

Do you REALLY want someone to answer this on a public forum?


really.....what rock are people hiding under???? You just keep hiding your children under the same rock people, and let them grow up to be ignorant too.

Could this be the same "rock" that gays hid under until they "came out" and became proud of their lifestyle?

We ALL have a right to our opinion. You have yours and I have mine. Can't we just let it go at that and stop trying to convert one another? No matter what is said here, I will continue to disapprove of multiple diversity weekends. And the gays will continue to approve of their lifestyle and want to flaunt it at diversity.

This diversity weekend has been beat to death. Have your fun and those of us who don't approve can stay home.




[This message has been edited by EurekaRebel (edited 10-25-2003).]

just wondering
10-25-2003, 08:54 AM
WOW! Lucinda and I must come from the same part of the country! We both agree on the same subject. "is to formulate a REAL prejudice against organized religion." OK Lucinda, when will organized religion start paying THEIR fair share of taxes?

ArkansawHillbillys
10-25-2003, 09:21 AM
Well Lucinda, that's quite an opinion you have there. Judgement is left up to God and God alone and regardless of what religious beliefs you have, and regardless of who wrote the Bible or the other books about the bible, in the end GOD will reign and judgement will be His. I have my morals and I am not ashamed of my religious beliefs. I am ashamed of myself for not following those beliefs as I believe God has imposed them on me thru the bible and good common sense. The Bible even says to try all spirits and this is defined by religious scholars of nearly all faiths to mean try all "faiths". I have tried most faiths and studied them in the past 30 years. And most all will agree that in the end GOD will be the judge. Diversity comes in many forms. Here most are refering to homosexuality. You pick on the Christian position here and infer that there are religions that openly accept homosexuality as a common way of life. I have yet to see that in my years of study but if you can tell me of religions (whether man based or God based) that support homosexuality, then please tell me so I will not continue to be ignorant on this subject. You also make the point that you were never taught about homosexuality since it wasn't an issue in your life and if the Christians would not have made an issue of it, then you wonder how things would be now. Well I think that is a good point, but it just isn't the way life is. Christians are not the only ones over the years to make an issue of homosexuality. (Example: The KKK) As you Cris and others, (as I also agreed ) have pointed out, "Morals" are not just religiously based. So those in this world that do not profess to be Christians and/or even religious at all still have "morals" , thus their own opinions and thoughts on homosexuality. So you can't have it both ways...thus don't blame Christians (like myself) for all the worlds woes. Just another little thought here, since you pushed the go button concerning "my" Christian standing. Think a moment...In the beginning God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve! Had it been Adam and Steve... none of us would be having this discussion right now as it is rather difficult to pro create with just two males or just two females.

Now, I realize not everyone shares Christian beliefs and that is something they will have to discuss with God when their time comes. I too will stand before God someday, and I shiver to think about that moment as I have lived less than a perfect life. By that I don't neccessarily mean "less" than a perfect "religious" life. So I am in no position to judge anyone about their lifestyles, whether it be homosexual, celibacy, obesity, adultry, lying, cheating, murdering, etc...... However, I do have my personal opinions about these and many other things that effect everyday living in this society of so much diversity and confusion.

EurekaRebel
10-25-2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys: ......In the beginning God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve!

Had it been Adam and Steve... none of us would be having this discussion right now as it is rather difficult to pro create with just two males or just two females.


ROTFLMBO.....
ROTFLMBO....

Let's see what the diverse say about that!

Some of you folks speak more eloquently than I ever could.

Lucinda
10-25-2003, 09:50 AM
AH - we are not too far apart in our beliefs and perceptions....but worlds apart on somethings.


Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:
Judgement is left up to God and God alone.

Yes, including judgements regarding race, religion and sexual preferences. But, God also gave us "judgement" to exercise, which is the option I credit to Mishey, ER (and the like) as a portion of their god-given as well as their constitutional rights.

The Bible even says to try all spirits and this is defined by religious scholars of nearly all faiths to mean try all "faiths".

I didn't know this. An interesting interpertation - I wonder how the Baptists translate that one? http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

You pick on the Christian position here... Yep, and I am a Christian.

and infer there are religions that openly accept homosexuality as a common way of life. I have yet to see that in my years of study but if you can tell me of religions (whether man based or God based) that support homosexuality, then please tell me so I will not continue to be ignorant on this subject.

AH, I don't know all religions as well as you might. I don't believe other religions, (save one I'm aware of) "support" homosexuality but all others seem to "accept" or exercise tolerance far more than Christians do. And I'm particularly referring to America's brands of Christianity.

The Catholic religion tends to be the most recoginizable 'icon' version of Christianity worldwide. Yet, thoughout the CENTURIES, they've preached against homosexuality whilst many, many, many ordained by the faith actively pursued the lifestyle.

Many American Indian tribes not only accepted homosexuality in their religion, they honored it as part of a natural order.

Christians are not the only ones over the years to make an issue of homosexuality. (Example: The KKK)

I despise the KKK for many reasons - one of which is the fact they BASE their prejudices in their RELIGIOUS beliefs. Religious prejudice at its very worst and most evil.

thus don't blame Christians (like myself) for all the worlds woes.

AH, go throughout history and earmark the travesties wrought on millions in the name of Christianity. No, we're not responsible for all of the world's woes, just a huge percentage of them.

Think a moment...In the beginning God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve!

AH, I can't even begin on this one....it's an entire debate onto itself....and includes evolution among many other topics. The concept of Adam and Eve as an argument against homosexuality isn't in my vernacular....even as a Christian.

[/B]

Lucinda
10-25-2003, 10:17 AM
Okay - the Adam and Eve bit is too tempting.

I believe the brilliance of God surpasses our ability to even phantom the "master plan". I believe the universes, God's universe, is complex beyond comprehension and that his vision is great enough to include good and evil, Adam & Even, the theory of evolution, the concept of alien races, the godly and the atheist, has plenty of room for all religious, cultural, and sexual preferences, includes the miracle of science with the gift of faith, etc. etc. (or the miracle of faith with the gift of science is probably more appropriate.)

God may have created Adam and Eve, but he also created “Lucy”, perhaps the best known of all early hominids, who lived in eastern Africa more than three million years ago. There was a first Lucy, therefore there had to be a “Desi” in order for their off-spring, little “Ricky”, to evolve into their 20th century versions.

I’m being flip here, but using a little humor to weave this into my point:

In barren Africa, 3 million years ago, food and sustenance must have been very hard to come by. How many hominids were competing for the same food and water? Consider the possibility that homosexuality also existed way back when – which it probably did - because the hominids were not too far removed from their animal ancestry and animals don’t typically have the same hang-ups we humans do.

Is it possible that the gay hominids were accepted by these early tribes for the same reasons American Indians often accepted homosexuals as part of the “natural order” that included among many things, a godly way to practice birth control and limit competition for vital resources?

Anyway, just on of many theories and one I find very interesting - and very “godly”.


[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 10-25-2003).]

ArkansawHillbillys
10-25-2003, 10:58 AM
Think a moment...In the beginning God made Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve!

Quote: [Lucinda]...AH, I can't even begin on this one....it's an entire debate onto itself....and includes evolution among many other topics. The concept of Adam and Eve as an argument against homosexuality isn't in my vernacular....even as a Christian..

Lucinda...just to make it clear...I wasn't trying to make an argument against homosexuality with this point. I was trying to adddress the statement about where would the world be if an issue of homosexuality by Christians would never have been made. Take homosexuality out ot the picture and ask yourself...where would we be if God had mande Adam and Steve rather than adam and Eve. Then re-introduce homosexuality into the picture if you must. Would we be here today discussing this issue? Obviously God meant for it to be Adam and Eve for the purposes of pro-creation if for no other reason!

Next, you claim to be a Christian but you seem to not undrstand Christian teachings unless you agree with them. Or at the very least that is how you come across to someone like me that does have a Christian based background/education in more than just one faith/religion. Theology covers a lot of territory. I sense you have a problem with the Baptist's and the Catholic's and I also have my opinions about those and several other religions, including those that are NOT Christian based. It is often hard for those that are looking for answers to look upon the so called "Christians" and find the guidance they desire. It all goes back to the subject earlier about no one is perfect. Though I do agree there are many hypocrites in this world in both secular and non-secular circles alike. I have been guilty of it myself at times in my life and I admit it. Sometimes, one is viewed as such without realizing their actions and words are being taken in a way that was different from one's original meaning. Sometimes, as is known to be "fact" in the aforementioned case(s) of certain Catholic church members, hypocrisy is evident. So some of your points here are well taken by me, but a few leave room for personal definition.

I don't mean to judge you here or anyone else for that matter. However, even though I may agree or disagree with the way things should or shouldn't be...I would be a lying hypocrite to deny the truth or fact just because I didn't agree with or like it. Thus, is often the way with religion in this world today. If we don't agree with God, we often try to attack the religious interpretations of His word. God does teach us that we will "EACH" be held accountable for ourselves come time of judgement by Him. It is each individual's responsibility to make sure they understand what God's interpretation of how he wants us to live our lives is. If one does not want to believe the teachings of the Bible, then one should look directly to God for guidance and use good ole common sense as to what is right and what is wrong.

Geeeez! If I sound like I am preaching here, please don't be offended. I am talking to myself more than anyone else! lol

Have A Great Day!

ArkansawHillbillys
10-25-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Lucinda:


Is it possible that the gay hominids were accepted by these early tribes for the same reasons American Indians often accepted homosexuals as part of the “natural order” that included among many things, a godly way to practice birth control and limit competition for vital resources?

Anyway, just on of many theories and one I find very interesting - and very “godly”.

Lucinda..I think I have addressed most of your issues here but this one got past me...So in all my ignorance, and having Indian ancestors on both mine and the spouses side of the family, I would like to be better educated on this issue.

Would you mind directing me to any information that is a matter of record/history that supports homosexuality as a common practice among Indians of any tribe as a "Natural Order"? Does this include lesbianism among the squaws of the tribes? I have a lot of family that are big on their Indian heritage, so I'd like to have all the facts before I apporach them on this! Perhaps they can email you directly so you can explain it to them! *S*

Don't you think having an Indian Heritage weekend would be kewl for Eureka? We could then invite them all to the Copa and make them aware of their heritage! LOL

Lita can we get some Indian music going?

Seriously, though, it wouldn't it be an idea to attract some tourists?

PMilam
10-25-2003, 12:21 PM
In a previous life, I was a hairdresser. I was reared Catholic, and had very little concept of homosexuality.
The only "queer" I knew, was in high school. (I use that term, only because that was the only term I knew back then.. had not heard gay, or even homosexual. When I think back.. he was so brave. He was extremely swishy and fem. I can still see him, in 1960-63, wearing a fringe jacket and moccasins.. unheard of there and then.

So, a couple of years out of high school, and out of beauty school I went to work in a shop. Working with me was Bill. A handsome, funny, full-of-life young man. I fell in love/lust. It took a while, and unproductive pursuing to finally find out that he was gay. We became the best of friends, (yep, I was a fruit fly/fag hag) and went dancing, shopping and just hanging out together. During this time, I was there many nights when Bill and his friends, male and female, sat around telling life stories. I had never known any of what they had lived through. Their memories, their first memories... were of being different, of not being like their sisters or brothers. Bill recalled being in awe of his sister, loving her clothes, hair, make up.. he wanted the same for himself.. as a young child. All the stories were similar.. they felt they had always been homosexual.. they had always been that way. That is when I realized that they had not made a choice, they were born that way. The awful teen years.. I cannot imagine.

That argument yes, but they can control the urges.. balderdash.. can you control your urges to be a heterosexual?

Years later, my late mother-in-law, a Southern Baptist, was wrestling with the thought that someone that she loved was gay. She said, I just cannot believe that God would make someone, then condemn them. I said.. me either.

Lucinda
10-25-2003, 12:34 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:


Take homosexuality out of the picture and ask yourself...where would we be if God had made Adam and Steve rather than Adam and Eve..... Obviously God meant for it to be Adam and Eve for the purposes of pro-creation if for no other reason!

But we had "Lucy & Desi" as at least an option for procreation, unless you don't happen to believe in evolution.

Then there is the "theistic evolution" theory - Lucy and Desi could well be Adam & Eve - divinely guided evolution.

Regardless - the reason I did not initially "go here" in the first post is because I don't believe the ability to pro-create has anything to do with the subject - of homosexuality. In today's world, gays can become biological parents with as much ease or difficulty as straights. (Actually, thinking on this more, gays have ALWAYS had the ability to become parents.)

Next, you claim to be a Christian but you seem to not understand Christian teachings unless you agree with them. Or at the very least that is how you come across to someone like me that does have a Christian based background/education in more than just one faith/religion.

I'm chuckling, because I had a bet with myself that this would be your next comment. How can I claim to be a Christian without accepting everything most fundamental Christian's write off to "faith". Can I question the Bible and be a Christian. Don't worry, my Mother, sister, daughter, and the rest of my strict Christian family have the same questions and concerns. I've spent years debating these issues with them and there just isn't enough reason to bore all of you with the details in which I manage to "win" that debate in my immediate family.

Still, they pray for me daily and I appreciate their prayers - not for exactly the same reasons - but grateful all the same.

...a few leave room for personal definition. And that is the whole truth. Each has to define for him/herself. I'm not trying to sway anyone's personal convictions, just giving food for thought and interesting debate.

Only in ES is the debate over religion less inflammatory than political debate http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

... If we don't agree with God, we often try to attack the religious interpretations of His word. ... If one does not want to believe the teachings of the Bible, then one should look directly to God for guidance and use good ole common sense as to what is right and what is wrong.

I probably will always debate religious interpretations, always because I will likely always consider the "preaching" to be interpretations of humans based upon the word of God. Again we agree, it's up the individual to commune with God to determine his/her own set of truths.

It's been an interesting dialogue AH - have a gooday to U 2.

-------------------

PS: And to the question about proof of Native Americans and homosexuality - sorry, but you'll have to research that one on-line for yourself. OR you could rent "Little Big Man" http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 10-25-2003).]

Lucinda
10-25-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by PMilam:

Years later, my late mother-in-law, a Southern Baptist, was wrestling with the thought that someone that she loved was gay. She said, I just cannot believe that God would make someone, then condemn them. I said.. me either.

Thanks for that Patt - my strict Methodist-converted-from-Baptist mother has come to the same conclusion, as has the rest of the clan. It took years to get there, but God led her to that conclusion because she makes no decisions without His counsel.

-------------------------------------------

As for the "topic"? How many diversity weekends? I vote for two because there IS the argument of "too much of a good thing". http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

Kim Yonkee
10-25-2003, 12:55 PM
One of these days, I think it would be really fun to have an entire conversation in bumper stickers. This would be a debate with only one rule: "If it can't be expressed in a sound-bite, suitable for chanting while marching in circles with a placard on a stick ... it can't be said." What an intellectual challenge, eh?

So what will the diverse people say about the timeless wisdom expressed by the statement, "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve?" Ummm.... "Honk if you love God?" ... "*&*# Happens?"... "Have a nice day? [smiley face]" ... "Enlighten up?" ... "God loves you! And I'm really trying."

Then you say, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

And I say, "About that 'love thy neighbor' thing? I meant it -- God."

See? Wouldn't it be fun? We could just bumper sticker each other until we dropped from exhaustion. http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

On a longer-sentence note...

The easiest way to find out info about Cindy's reference to Native American attitudes is to do a search for the term Berdache. That's the generic, Europeanized, somewhat non-PC term. Out in the neck of the woods where I come from, the Crow called such a person a Bote. The Sioux had another name ... each tribe had their own version in their own language.

There was a commonality, among tribes, with the general idea that a person who is born "different" also is born with special powers. We'd probably call someone like this a drag queen and evict them from the community, but a "berdache" was generally regarded as someone who provided a bridge between worlds ... the world of men and women, the world of temporal and spiritual. It was an honored role.

The whole sexual obsession and moral condemnation thing came a bit later ... from the culture that brought us inspirational gems like "Biblically approved" torture, ownership of women and children as property, execution, warfare, slavery, Torquemada, the Crusades, witch burning. All the good and holy quests of earlier eras.

Mind you, I'm not claiming that Christianity is, by nature, a faith that condemns. Interpretation has been a historically problematic issue. For example, we can look back to the not-very-distant past and be horrified by what we now regard as the misuse of scripture to justify human slavery. NOW we regard this as a misuse of scripture to make a morally reprehensible point, but in its day, the idea that slavery was God's law for "inferior" beings had just as much passionate defense as the current quest to save America from homosexuality has today.

It's always something. So far, it's always something different. So I guess I'll just wait around and see what happens next.

Lucinda
10-25-2003, 01:11 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kim:
This would be a debate with only one rule: "If it can't be expressed in a sound-bite, suitable for chanting while marching in circles with a placard on a stick ... it can't be said." What an intellectual challenge, eh?

I love it Kim - but don't you think you and I would be the first to break those rules? I can see it now - paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs of rule breaking. Sure, we'd start OUT with good intentions - one liners - but then we'd have to explain the history, meaning and our personal feelings about the bumper sticker, complete with footnotes http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif

THANK YOU for the info on where I got this strange notion that Indians were cool. I was afraid I'd have to prove it.

The whole sexual obsession and moral condemnation thing came a bit later ... from the culture that brought us inspirational gems like "Biblically approved" torture, ownership of women and children as property, execution, warfare, slavery, Torquemada, the Crusades, witch burning. All the good and holy quests of earlier eras.

Pogroms in Eastern Europe, the Grand Inquisition, the near-eradication of the American Indian, the plagues that wiped out the Aztecs and God knows how many other tribes to complete extinction by the intense need to send missionaries to every corner of the planet......
[QUOTE]

Cris Dunnam
10-25-2003, 03:11 PM
. . . . and uh, UltraSuede RULES!!

PenDragon
10-25-2003, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by EurekaRebel:
Do you REALLY want someone to answer this on a public forum?

Yes, yes I do. I want to know what YOU know for sure THEY are doing.

I want to know exactly how many gay people's homes have you ever lived in and all the juicy details! I want to hear all your exploits hanging out in gay hangouts (where ever they might be around here). Tell me all the wild things you saw while living and hanging out with them. Did you witness something I have missed? If so, I want to hear your first hand knowledge. I love juicy gossip when it's first hand, it's better that way.

Please share, I will be awaiting anxiously your first hand experiences with gay people.


P.S. You aren't by any chance married to a guy named Robert are you?

James DeVito
10-25-2003, 03:48 PM
Not having a bible handy I will attempt it anyway. Much stock regarding the issue of homosexuals springs from the old testament, especially the story of Sodomn and Gemmorah. The issue that most seem to overlook is the search for 10 honest men. The ultimate "sin" in this parable was the one of not being hospitable. What the rowdy crowd wanted to do to the strangers was to sodomize them.(I don`t know what they called it before this story) This was not an act of affection, but was more akin to rape, and an effort to subjugate them. Even today in some middle-east countries men have sex with boys. This is not a homosexual act. It is because the women are cloistered, and the men are in effect, lazy. I believe this is what the old testament refers to in its warnings.
Lets take a new testament story and see how it can be interpreted. The sermon on the mount speaks of Christ multiplying the loaves and fishes by a miracle. I believe what Christ did was start an act of sharing among the crowd. He said all he had were these few loaves and fishes, but he was willing to share. This started a chain reaction among the crowd and before you knew it there was enough food for everyone and baskets of leftovers.
The bible has a lot of stories that were there for a reason. Now that we have refrigeration we can eat shellfish and a lot of other "dangerous" foods.

frumious Bandersnatch
10-25-2003, 06:17 PM
Right On Chris... ULTRA SUEDE RULES...

and Kim... My bumper sticker would say:

NUKE A AL QUEDA GAY WHALE FOR JESUS WHILE SAVING THE LESBIAN APARTIED DEFENSE FUND

(if my spelling did not mess that up) your response would be?

As the Joe's Crab Shack slogan goes, "Peace, Love, & Crabs" to all!

Lita
10-25-2003, 07:32 PM
WOW...where to begin.

Mothers- Daughter,
These Diversity people which come to the Copa and "do their thing". Well, I am inviting you to the Copa so you may see first hand what "their thing is". It's ok. They don't bite. They are not offended that you are straight. There are many straight people that also travel here for Diversity weekend because it is SO much fun. They enjoy all of the activities happening around town, no different than any other festival.
The "thing" you will see happening at the Copa will be, people of all religous backgrounds, male , female, bi, gay, lesbian, straight, black , white, hispanic, local good ole boys, the well educated, the less educated, having a great time visiting with each other, celebrating the Diverse lifestyle. Oh yeah, don't forget I made the status of Honorary Lesbian this year (2nd year in a row), and I am STRAIGHT. I am very proud to hold that title. How many straight girls get the Honor of being Honorary Lesbian ? I feel a little sad though....there is no Diversity Parade (yet), where I could feel like all of the Queens do in other Parades. It would be nice if I could ride in a parade, in my best dress and hair made perfect, my nails perfectly sculptured, make up.......the works. I could have those signs put on the doors saying "Diversity Honorary Lesbian 2002 and 2003". My escort could be one of the gorgeous Drag Queens I have for that weekend. Matter of fact, I think that would be a great added event to add to Diversity weekend. I think a good name for it would be "Pride Parade".

When I went to Springfield to a gay bar to pick out my Drag Queens a few weeks ago for this November Diversity, I was sad to learn the bar I went to had problems with gay bashers lurking outside the building, and were there to pounce on people and beat the hell out of them when they leave at closing time. I said "you mean this **** still goes on"? A friend who was with me is a "higher up" in the EMS Dept. She said she doesn't know how many calls they have been to at that particular bar (several), where they have had to work on people who have had the hell beat out of them from these hate crime idiots. The police were everywhere you looked at closing time. To me.....that's sad. I know people that go to that bar, and they are all very good people. I can't imagine this happening to one of my friends. I have gotten to know so many, from a large surrounding area which come to Diversity weekend and have for years . If people don't like the Diversity lifestyle, its very easy to deal with. Don't be around it. Another sad thing, those are the people missing out on making new friends for life.

The religous part of this. I met a gay couple last night who are here from Dallas. They wanted to meet me because of the Front Porch BBS. As we were visiting, I found they are members of the largest Gay Church in Dallas. He talked proudly of his Church. Which brings me to another point.....just because you are Gay/ Lesbian doesn't mean you are "without God in your life". These people worship and pray, same as the Baptist, Assembly of God, Catholic, and on down the line of churches. No different than me being a Bar Owner and people saying I am without God because of my line of work. Some think it is a "den of iniquity", and I am a sinner in their eyes. Well, maybe God put me there for a reason. I still pray, I watch my preacher, Joel Olsteen EVERY Sunday night on TV, I also watch Joyce Meyers Life in the Word. My beleif is, we are all here for a reason, no matter what your religous beleif is, no matter what line of work you are in, no matter what sexual preferance you have. It takes all kinds to make a world. I am sure God figured this out a loooooong time ago. Maybe, this is one of Gods test for us all......."love thy neighbor".

Anywho, I invite all of the curious people to be at the Copa on Diversity Nov. 8th. You might be surprised at what "doing their thing" really is.

R.J. Stevens, lesbian Author of her new book out called "Becoming Bobbie", will be there from noon to 2:30 for a book signing.

The Annual Drag Show starts at 2:30, and will run til apprx. 6:00 (maybe a little longer).

I will kick off Karaoke immediatley following the Drag Show until 1:30 a.m.
(there are a lot of fantastic singers every year)!

If anyone has any questions, feel free to contact me. Litaann@mynewroads.com

Thanks,

Lita
www.copacabanaclub.com (http://www.copacabanaclub.com)

Becky Davis
10-25-2003, 09:25 PM
I have one bumper sticker on my car that I think about covers it all.
BE NICE.

Kim Yonkee
10-25-2003, 09:27 PM
Hah! Yes, Cindy, I think you're right. But I'll give it a shot with frumious bandersnatch. My answer is:

In God we trust. All others we monitor.

I'm too busy to insult you right now, but your humiliation is important to me. Please hold.

James, that would be Genesis 19, which tells us exactly what to do: When faced with the threat of a rampaging horde of homosexuals, offer your virgin daughters to the crowd. It's a bit later, in Leviticus, where we learn that one should NOT offer rampaging homosexual hordes, (or anyone else,) clam dip and peel 'n eat shrimp. Virgin daughters, yes. Shellfish, no.

Lita, now you have me really stressed out. I was already worried about the gay lifestyle thing, and now we have a diversity lifestyle too? Oh man oh man! This is even worse than the whole "mini skirts are out, minis are in" thing. I certainly hope that we'll be seeing some instructional videos at the Copa. Surely there's a Robin Leach character who can demonstrate the appropriate elements of STYLE. I need guidance. Guidance!

It's sad ... it's embarassing ... but I've been laboring under the misconception that everybody's sexual orientation is primarily horizontal. How tragically misguided I've been! [blush]

Oh and Cris, I just want you to know that your attraction to Ultra Suede doesn't bother me at all. Some of my best friends are Ultra Suede fans. Sure, some may call it an unhealthy obsession, but I don't care what anybody says. It's OK by me.

But ... do your parents know?

http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

sweetness&light
10-25-2003, 10:13 PM
In God we trust; all others pay cash.

DrLewall
10-25-2003, 11:39 PM
"Help! The Paranoids are after me!"

DrLewall

leon bee
10-26-2003, 01:09 AM
The only thing I would be offended by is that karaoke.

snowdiva
10-26-2003, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by PMilam:
In a previous life, I was a hairdresser. I was reared Catholic, and had very little concept of homosexuality.
The only "queer" I knew, was in high school. (I use that term, only because that was the only term I knew back then.. had not heard gay, or even homosexual. When I think back.. he was so brave. He was extremely swishy and fem. I can still see him, in 1960-63, wearing a fringe jacket and moccasins.. unheard of there and then.

So, a couple of years out of high school, and out of beauty school I went to work in a shop. Working with me was Bill. A handsome, funny, full-of-life young man. I fell in love/lust. It took a while, and unproductive pursuing to finally find out that he was gay. We became the best of friends, (yep, I was a fruit fly/fag hag) and went dancing, shopping and just hanging out together. During this time, I was there many nights when Bill and his friends, male and female, sat around telling life stories. I had never known any of what they had lived through. Their memories, their first memories... were of being different, of not being like their sisters or brothers. Bill recalled being in awe of his sister, loving her clothes, hair, make up.. he wanted the same for himself.. as a young child. All the stories were similar.. they felt they had always been homosexual.. they had always been that way. That is when I realized that they had not made a choice, they were born that way. The awful teen years.. I cannot imagine.

That argument yes, but they can control the urges.. balderdash.. can you control your urges to be a heterosexual?

Years later, my late mother-in-law, a Southern Baptist, was wrestling with the thought that someone that she loved was gay. She said, I just cannot believe that God would make someone, then condemn them. I said.. me either.

Patt, I thought that this was worth reading again, especially the last few lines...thank you Patt and God Bless YOU for feeling this way and, I know you raised your children this way too........sharon

ArkansawHillbillys
10-26-2003, 10:25 AM
Okay, I can see a handful of people are going to make something out of this post that it was NOT. Why, because they just have to have the opportunity to take a negative and run with it. So, I will openly admit here, in public, that to some the humor I was trying to inject into this otherwise very serious topic, was not in good taste. It was not meant to be offensive, but since I have offended at least one or two people, and maybe more, I respectfully apologize and withdraw this post. I will try harder in the future to ask myself, prior to posting, if what I have said might offend someone. I will then decide whether or not the post is worthy of posting. I challenge EVERYONE else in here to do the same, since there were those so very quick to jump on me here. Perhaps I deserved it! Perhaps not! And Sweetness...Just for the record, my heritage includes, Scotch, Irish, Italian, English, German, Indian and Mexican. I have been teased several times in my life of having more than a "mixed" race background. I also had seven Brothers, six Sisters, nineteen Uncles and Aunties. You can't imagine the jokes that go with having such a diverse heritage. How do I feel when people make jokes about it? I laugh along with them. Why be offended by something unless you are ashamed of it? I'm not ashamed of my heritage and neither is my brother-in-law or his family ashamed of theirs. Of course you would have to spend time with people of different races and cultures to fully appreciate the jokes they make witin their own cultures and also those toward the White and other races. I wish I had a dollar for every gay joke or jab that was told to me by gay men and women. And Yes I have been the subject of "straight" ridicule and jokes before and I always seemed to find humor in it and am not offended. I suppose it is all in the heart and how one feels about themselves and others. Whats that saying I heard earlier in this post?....."judge not lest ye be judged?"
Have a Great Day!

[This message has been edited by ArkansawHillbillys (edited 10-26-2003).]

PMilam
10-26-2003, 10:27 AM
Thank you, Sharon.
Hillbilly got all up in between us... http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by PMilam (edited 10-26-2003).]

gayle
10-26-2003, 11:41 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:
[B] Kim, I got a call from my only black brother-in-law last night and this is how he saw what you said in this post:

what the hell????????????????????? how insulting is this???????? Is this supposed to be funny????? excuse me if i think this is terrible.
Gayle

EurekaRebel
10-26-2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:
Kim, I got a call from my only black brother-in-law last night......

..... Sheeit!


Excuse ME...........I thought it was hilarious! Anyone who really knows Black people, know they DO indeed talk just like that! It's call dialect. Duh.....

Arkansas Hillbillys, you are a Hoot! Would like to meet you someday, whoever you are!

You do tell it like it is!

gayle
10-26-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by EurekaRebel:
Excuse ME...........I thought it was hilarious! Anyone who really knows Black people, know they DO indeed talk just like that! It's call dialect. Duh.....

Arkansas Hillbillys, you are a Hoot! Would like to meet you someday, whoever you are!

You do tell it like it is!

It's also called racism. once again the old saying "like attracts like" is put to the test and proven as true.
I find it exceedingly sad that in this day and age racist comments such as the preceeding two are seen as "funny". This very very pathetic attempt at humor simply illustrates that ignorance is alive and well and living in Eureka Springs. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.

frumious Bandersnatch
10-26-2003, 12:20 PM
Four men went golfing one day. Three of them headed to the first tee and the fourth went into the clubhouse to take care of the bill.

The three men started talking and bragging about their sons. The first man told the others, "My son is a home builder, and he is so successful that he gave a friend a new home for free. Just gave it to him!"

The second man said, "My son was a car salesman, and now he owns a multi-line dealership. He's so successful that he gave one of his friends a new Mercedes, fully loaded."

The third man, not wanting to be outdone, bragged, "My son is a stockbroker, and he's doing so well that he gave his friend an entire portfolio."

The fourth man joined them on the tee after a few minutes of taking care of business. The first man mentioned, "We were just talking about our sons. How is yours doing?"

The fourth man replied, "Well, my son is gay and go-go dances in a gay bar."

The other three men grew silent as he continued, "I'm not totally thrilled about the dancing job, but he must be doing well. His last three boyfriends gave him a house, a brand new Mercedes, and a stock portfolio."

Becky Davis
10-26-2003, 12:28 PM
http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

gayle
10-26-2003, 01:22 PM
heheheheheheheheheheh

ArkansawHillbillys
10-26-2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by gayle:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:
[B] Kim, I got a call from my only black brother-in-law last night and this is how he saw what you said in this post:

what the hell????????????????????? how insulting is this???????? Is this supposed to be funny????? excuse me if i think this is terrible.
Gayle

Well Gayle, he thought it was funny. Or do you have a problem with the fact I have a black borther-in-law. He happens to be a very talented and respected photographer in Houston, Texas.

ArkansawHillbillys
10-26-2003, 02:05 PM
Okay...so this doesn't get out of hand... if I offended anyone with the "EBONICS" transalation of Kim's post. I apologize. I probably have as many black, (African American) friends as I have Gay friends. I also have kin folks that are of a few other races. I also have gay kin folks and I have gay neighbors. I have freinds that are dirt poor and I have friends and kin folks that are filthy rich. So before anyone goes to judging me and trying to put me in the prejudice category, you should think twice. Gayle, why is it something negative has to always be found in a post? Ever thought about looking for the positive? I personally am offended by your remark toward my post and the fact that you are trying to make an issue out of something that was not there or meant in the way you would have everyone believe. It was humor, plain and simple. However, if I offended you, I apologize for that also!

porque
10-26-2003, 02:27 PM
All of the comments and counter comments in this forum are indeed thought provoking. This has really been good for many. For me, it leaves me wondering about a few things.

1. Diversity weekend is for a diverse group of cultures, is it not? Then why does the topic of gay/lesbian seem to be the most popular?

2. The comment - "God led me" or "it is Go d's will" or "God told me" - - Since I have been around longer than dirt, and I have never had a meeting with God. How does all the direction arive? Does god pull up a chair and say "OK this is what you will do?

3.God created Adam and Eve(Steve).Since this all happened before anyone was there to act as a midwife, and before the written word. How does anyone know just what happened?

4. Since the Bible was written and then re-written many times, Each time subject to the will of the Editor and interpretation. And also - whose Bible shall we use? Everyone has the opinion that their bible is the only true one. Complicated ??

5. Gays like Gays - Right? And Gays normally are Guys - Right?

6. Lesbians like Lesbians - Right and a lesbian is a female - Right? And Lesbians normal theorum is that Men are not required for any useful purpose - Right? Then why are strap on devices for women so popular?

7. I think the above makes me sound like a card carrying bigot, but, believe it or not I could care less what your orientation is. You can be proud of your diversity or not. You can parade and demo all you want and it won't bother me. If I don't like it. I just won't be there.

8. I have lived around a lot from West to East Coast. Have many friends who are very diverse and I am proud to party with them all. Just don't blow in my ear, uninvited. Whether you believe me or not is totally academic.

sweetness&light
10-26-2003, 02:34 PM
James,

I would value your opinion. Would you have found it humorous or demeaning if the ethnic slang was substituted for an Italian/English accent?

ArkansawHillbillys
10-26-2003, 03:08 PM
In reference to the Ebonics transalation of Kim's post, that I have now withdrawn, Let me re-post this here at the end of this thread so no one will say I am hiding my admission of guilt!


Originally posted by ArkansawHillbillys:
Okay, I can see a handful of people are going to make something out of this post that it was NOT. Why, because they just have to have the opportunity to take a negative and run with it. So, I will openly admit here, in public, that to some the humor I was trying to inject into this otherwise very serious topic, was not in good taste. It was not meant to be offensive, but since I have offended at least one or two people, and maybe more, I respectfully apologize and withdraw this post. I will try harder in the future to ask myself, prior to posting, if what I have said might offend someone. I will then decide whether or not the post is worthy of posting. I challenge EVERYONE else in here to do the same, since there were those so very quick to jump on me here. Perhaps I deserved it! Perhaps not! And Sweetness...Just for the record, my heritage includes, Scotch, Irish, Italian, English, German, Indian and Mexican. I have been teased several times in my life of having more than a "mixed" race background. I also had seven Brothers, six Sisters, nineteen Uncles and Aunties. You can't imagine the jokes that go with having such a diverse heritage. How do I feel when people make jokes about it? I laugh along with them. Why be offended by something unless you are ashamed of it? I'm not ashamed of my heritage and neither is my brother-in-law or his family ashamed of theirs. Of course you would have to spend time with people of different races and cultures to fully appreciate the jokes they make witin their own cultures and also those toward the White and other races. I wish I had a dollar for every gay joke or jab that was told to me by gay men and women. And Yes I have been the subject of "straight" ridicule and jokes before and I always seemed to find humor in it and am not offended. I suppose it is all in the heart and how one feels about themselves and others. Whats that saying I heard earlier in this post?....."judge not lest ye be judged?"

Have a Great Day!

[This message has been edited by ArkansawHillbillys (edited 10-26-2003).]

sweetness&light
10-26-2003, 08:09 PM
Why on earth would I care what race(s) you are? I don't. My question was not to you, nor about you. My question was to James, period.

DrLewall
10-26-2003, 08:39 PM
I am amaised at how the "Devout Christian" still roams this earth with a Bible clutched in one hand, a knife in the other hand, blinders upon their eys and the talent to tongue lash anyone who who thinks or believes differently.

Kim Yonkee
10-26-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by porque:
And Lesbians normal theorum is that Men are not required for any useful purpose - Right? Then why are strap on devices for women so popular?

Excuse me. But this is a gross misconception.
There is just no substitute for the following critical functions of men:

<ul>
Men move furniture and lift other heavy objects.
Men make excellent drinking buddies.
Men never ask you if they look fat. They know they look fat. They accept it.
Men almost always share the lesbian love of power tools. (That's SNAP on, not STRAP on)
[/list]

James DeVito
10-26-2003, 09:13 PM
I would never go into a crowd of people I don`t know and start making off color jokes that might offend someone. With Arkansas laws ,these days, you can pack heat just about anywhere.Even here we seem to shoot our mouths off.

DrLewall
10-26-2003, 10:11 PM
Kim, youre right on the money girl! Know why God gave us men bigger brains than dogs? It is so we would not hump womens legs at parties.

tanner
10-26-2003, 11:45 PM
>. Lesbians like Lesbians - Right and a lesbian is a female - Right? And Lesbians normal theorum is that Men are not required for any useful purpose - Right? Then why are strap on devices for women so popular?<

That particular fad was started by straight women who had inadequately endowed husbands..

White Bread
10-27-2003, 05:53 AM
You forgot about the bugs. Without men, who would kill the bugs? That's why God gave them longer arms and big shoes.

Lita
10-27-2003, 10:28 AM
LMAO !!! This thread just keeps getting better and better........LMAO !

Kim Yonkee
10-28-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by DrLewall:
Kim, youre right on the money girl! Know why God gave us men bigger brains than dogs? It is so we would not hump womens legs at parties.

Oh dear. Does this mean that we're going to be prevented from our traditional FPA Gathering Greeting? http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif

tulsa dawn
10-28-2003, 06:11 AM
OMG!! You nailed him on that one, Kim!!

Thanks for the early morning funny!

littlemomma
10-28-2003, 06:35 AM
I thought the only good thing about having a man around is so he could open the pickle jar....

Cris Dunnam
10-28-2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by littlemomma:
I thought the only good thing about having a man around is so he could open the pickle jar....

"Pickle Jar?" Is that some kind of metaphor or homosexual slang? http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif

snowdiva
10-29-2003, 01:11 AM
NO,Cris, it is as simply as she put it...so he could OPEN A PICKLE JAR.....,mustard jar, mayo jar, etc...get it???...?

Cris Dunnam
10-29-2003, 06:04 AM
Originally posted by snowdiva:
NO,Cris, it is as simply as she put it...so he could OPEN A PICKLE JAR.....,mustard jar, mayo jar, etc...get it???...?

You do realize I was making a joke, right? It was playing on homophobic ignorance.

get it???

littlemomma
10-29-2003, 07:19 AM
LOL! .. My man can open up my pickle jar anyday! .... IF HE WOULD!!!!
http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by littlemomma (edited 10-29-2003).]

DrLewall
10-29-2003, 11:23 PM
I have a something that I use to open "pickle jars". Perhaps youve seen one, it has a "strap-on" it and it is blue! And it comes in two sizes! Large and small.

[This message has been edited by DrLewall (edited 10-29-2003).]