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C-mo
08-13-2002, 05:23 PM
I hope people reading this board see the posts about the CDP and James DeVito for what they really are, a very well planned and executed smeer campaign to thwart James' bid for Mayor.

Many irrelevant questions have been asked in this smeer campaign. The CDP is trying to help Eureka by proposing a parking garage.

If you've been around multimillion dollar projects, you know that there are many stages to a large project. I've put together proposals for a $5 million dollar plant expansion, and $12 million equipment acquisition, among others. Does that mean that the plant expansion cost exactly $5 million? No, but when the CEO asks in the beginning, "what's it gonna cost me?" You better have a ball park figure, because saying "gee I don't know" would make you look like an idiot.

Likewise, If you've been involved in large government grants you know there are also many stages. And the planning stage comes BEFORE the implementation stage. Why would CDP pay for appraisals if there is no chance of getting the grant? Don't you think it would be better to explore the possibility of the grant first, before paying for appraisals? The questions are moot, because at this stage in the process is doesn't matter whether or not the proposal said $500K or $450K, $950K or $900K.

Government grants are limited to a stated purpose. If this grant is awarded, it would almost certainly be contingent on the donation of land by the city, county, etc., stated in the proposal. After the grant is awarded, the CDP will approach the city and county goverment for their cooperation. That is where public scrutiny will come into play.

This is a common way to proceed in projects like this. No big conspiracy. No attempt to keep people in the dark. No "evil bankers and italian restaurant owners" out to get you. No Il Duce, or sneering committee attempt to profit off the little guy.

Just good people, trying to do good things for the city they live in, while being faced with a very well planned and executed smeer campaign.

The only thing the so called "mushrooms" have in common with a real mushroom is they all thrive on feces.

Royal Alcott
08-13-2002, 05:39 PM
C-mo
Since when is asking for truth is a smeer?

In the many, many estimates I have prepared for projects running to nine figures, I have never included conditional might or would if only $ or approve this and I'll come back with the real numbers after we get the check.

Attacking truth is never a good campaign tactic, even in Eurek Springs.

C-mo
08-13-2002, 05:52 PM
Royal, did you have your 9 figure project down to the penny from day one? If you did, that a pretty sharp pencil!!

Common sense estimates are common at the beginning of a project. They are accepted, and even further, expected.

Asking for truth is one thing. Asking irrelevant questions as a part of an elaborate smeer campaign is quite another.

As James has done, I would not legitimize your smeer campaign with an answer to irrelevant questions either.

just wondering
08-13-2002, 06:32 PM
smeer is a type of cheese. I believe you(cmo) mean smear

[This message has been edited by just wondering (edited 08-13-2002).]

C-mo
08-13-2002, 06:40 PM
I'm not an expert on cheese or campaigns. I do, however, know when something is rotten in Denmark, and I can smell it all the way to Eureka Springs.

Smeer or smear. How you spell it doesn't change what it is.

Royal Alcott
08-13-2002, 07:30 PM
C-mo-

Day one is when you are prepared with solid data.

The voters will judge the relevance of DeVito's and CDP's and Yuuma's silence, not their nameless apologists hiding behind masks.

OuterRing
08-13-2002, 08:51 PM
Royal,

Despite your continued effort to do all you can to return Eureka Springs to late 1979...you will fail.

You do attract a certain uninformed very small group of people who can not think for themselves. I know your family must be proud of you!!

The small but un or mis informed group will fuss and cuss and in the end that will be all.

OR

Persona Non Gratis
08-13-2002, 09:45 PM
I once again see the vast right wing conspiracy at work here, as an outsider and a legal trained mind, I also have been involed in Multi-Million dollar bids grants etc. I see a guy asking questions that are not being addressed, all of this can be gathered through goverment agencies in washington under the fredom of information act. But what i find strange is not a smeer but a guy asking informed questions and being attacked. As I predicted more attempt to delude reasons of question based on self interest toward a multi-purpose. Such Demogoguery, don't let them confuse the questions at hand, stay focused and bring about the hidden agenda at work. The cultural war thickens, I figure these and more questions need to be ask before your elections.

Royal Alcott
08-13-2002, 10:39 PM
OR-

1979!!!

What was so great about 1979? I wasn't here then.

I am working with a small group of thinking people to return Eureka Springs to fame and profitability with a broader tax base, much better paying jobs and the return of more affluent visitors coming more often and looking forward to staying longer and spending much more on things they value highly.

Do you prefer the lower wages and off season unemployment cycles that president of the Community Development Partnership of Western Carroll County Jack Moyer wants?

If you do, that is your privilege.

Try a little truth now and then. It might be habit forming.

jf501
08-14-2002, 05:06 AM
C-mo, be carefull people might think your part of a conspiracy or amoung part of the evil do-er's whoever they are this month.
lol

Harikat
08-14-2002, 10:37 AM
C-mo, I think the most important element you are missing here is the CDP or Yuuma can not be the party involved.

The $13 million can ONLY go to a certified local government, the City of Eureka Springs. The plans, development, and administration have to run thru and by the city of E.S. It would have been nice to have the planning commission and HDC in on all the info from the ground floor.

By the way, in the CDP proposal, $50K is the estimated cost of maintaining the garage per year. I'm not sure where that line item is in our budget.

AND lastly, I can not believe this garage is a mandate of the people, as they have had zero imput to date.

Magic
08-14-2002, 03:06 PM
Royal,
Who is in your small thinking group?
Will you give us a list of these folks?
Are your discussions open to everyone?
Do any outside your group know what is being said or done?
Have you contacted city council or commissions with your plans?
Is there a city council person involved in these discussions/plans?
Have you been laying the ground work for a Mayoral political candidate? A council seat?
(Sly old ad man that you are.)
Will your slogan be "Save the Mushrooms"?
Will there be buttons and bumper stickers?
Is persona non gratis your alter ego?
Is persona non gratis Beau alter ego?
Amusing the timing of png appearance on this board. All the things that have gone down and his only opinion and interest has to do with "our Mayor" and the evil ones who wish to destroy. Mix his fear based opinions along with your great conspiracy theory and WOW! an ad mans dream for a dirty campaign.
Yep--funny--the time frame of his appearance, sort of like mine.........just like
Magic

Persona Non Gratis
08-14-2002, 05:55 PM
Well, I don't know your Royal or your Mayor but recently purchased a place in your fine community as an old Ad man myself I am glad to see there are others here who understand the propangda, as for magic in its true nature , its nothing more than an illusion!!After doing a little research on your fine community, Times Echo 1905 reported, "This wonderful resort of health and rest and pleasure is destined to be the elite mecca for those seeking pleasure in all the years to come." The elite I see on the street and trolley, chain smoke and are the working poor a Grapes of Wrath tale from the outer hinter land of the bubble. Thats why they like the chicken fried steak crowd and plaid shirts, Its a cultural war at hand, I mean would Ozark Buffet or Mrs Yoders make it in the burbs of Dallas, Overland Park KS, The Country Club Plaza, Highland park Village in Dallas, I think not. Keep aiming for the folks with no money who will spend $29.00 on a motel. This is the lower socio-economic group the blue collar working poor. Hence,to steal a little trickel down economics which I would think goes right into thinking with the right, aim high and the rest will come. "Elite mecca for years to come", indeed! And just like magic it will all disapear.

Kaye Miller
08-14-2002, 06:18 PM
Retired Ad man. Who'da guessed it??

Royal tells me I don't know anything about how ad men work. Actually I think he called me ignorant. So, could you clear up something for me?? Are ad men paid by the word or how well their product/bill of goods sells?? (I am trying to improve my education here and not be so ignorant so there is no need for anyone to get unruly.)

C-mo
08-14-2002, 06:35 PM
How about Ermilio's, Local Flavor, DeVito's, Bavarian Inn, Rogue's Manor, Olive's, and on and on? Would those places make it in PNG's high falutin', uppity, places?

I happen to like chicken fried steak and fried catfish, as well as a good filet and a good prime rib.

Let's not divide, conquer, and exclude people just because they can't afford a $40 a plate dinner. Unless your an uppity, high falutin Chicago transplant that thinks he's better than poor folk.

Persona Non Gratis
08-14-2002, 11:01 PM
Well, I have eaten in most of those places and Olives would make it on Greenville Ave in Dallas or in Kansas City's Westport area.
Devito's is stuck in the 70's;iceberg lettuce and croutons out of a box, a very limited wine selection and the menu has not changed since I was a tourist, but at least he makes his own bread. Ermillios would make it in the burbs. Local Flavor, average price and decent for what it is, but a bit sterile in atmosphere, plastic chairs, etc. and once again limited wine selection. Barvarian Inn, stuck in the 70's again, might make it as a theme restaurant somewhere. Rouges Manor, decent atmosphere, decent food ,oysters great in season. You forgot Oz, now Chez Charles, very good presentation, great deserts. Cottage Inn, you left that out,good food & very nice wine selection best in town I have found. This is not what I call uppity, its just an acceptable standard. If I want home style I know where to find it anywhere and so do most tourists. This is not divide and conquer, it's simply the truth. I have yet to find a place with real fresh seafood, not frozen, you know 24 hours out of the water or less, Chilian sea bass etc. I feel that would work here, a really good fresh seafood restaurant , maybe Pacific Rim cuisine. And most meals are not 40.00 per person. Olives average $17.00, Rogues $21, Ermillios $12, Oz $22.00. Cottage Inn $18.00. Food is one thing PNG knows well.
Oh and I am not from Chicago, just when you thought I was one of those DAM Yankees, still bothered by that war betwixt the states?!
Keep an eye on that chef from the Crecsent, he turning out some decent dishes.

Royal Alcott
08-14-2002, 11:36 PM
Magic-
1. Yes
2. A business group. No reason for you to know who they are. Private enterprise and all that.
3. No
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. No
8. No
9. What we are doing does not involve the election.
10. No
11. I do not know who PNG is.

Magic, maybe you should join C-mo and do a sleight of words act.

Royal Alcott
08-15-2002, 12:07 AM
Ms Miller-

Ignorance simply means a lack of knowledge.

Since you asked how ad men are paid, you evidently assume they all write ads. That is a common myth.

In a big ad agency there are many departments. Most of them have nothing to do with the creation of advertising.

In each department men and women are paid for their skills in many areas but their ability to please clients is the most important factor.

Client Services is a critical department.
These people keep track of every client job in the works, make sure reports are current and the job is completed on time and on budget.

Accounting tracks all agency spending for clients, keeps track of all supplier performance and billing and bills clients for services rendered.

Account Management people are the agency representatives to the client ad and marketing people. They work out strategy with the client people. They work out a budget with the client and keep track of all budgeted work and changes. They work out tactics with the Media and Creative Departments.

Housekeeping, Legal,Secretarial and Computer Services like Accounting, could all quit tomorrow and go to work the next day for an insurance company without skipping a dotted i or a crossed t.

Creative Departments have writers, art directors, producers and contracting staffs. Creative Departments produce ads in all commissioned media using professional services under contract.

Research Departments test ads and conduct market research useful to clients.

Depending on the size of the agency and the needs of their clients there maybe a special department that works on package design and other assignments that use agency skills
but not for creating ads. This is called collateral work and it is fee compensation based.

So the fewest number of people in a big ad agency write ads. They are paid for the success of their work in pleasing clients and client stockholders.

On background they are called ad agencies because they function under agency law as agents for media, not clients.

An ad agency pays for all work ordered by the agency and is legally liable for paying these bills. That is agency law.

The agency then rebills the client and adds a commission or a fee which has been negotiated with the client.

If the client does not pay the agency, that's just tough.

Now you should not be as ignorant as you were.

Heretic
08-15-2002, 10:26 AM
PNG,
You're not one of those "Eureka can be the new Aspen" people, are you? After the millions of dollars spent to get people here, the word is now out about Eureka Springs. Aspen it ain't! More like Ass Pen.

Persona Non Gratis
08-16-2002, 05:57 PM
No not one of the Aspen crowed, and Eureka is far from it, no Planet Hollywood, no skiing, no Hollywood crowd, no$500.00 hotel rooms. I am head to your fine town for the weekend. PNG will be checking out the sights and sounds.