Open letter to Bill King

[Royal Alcott]

Reference your editorial, May 30, 2002.

Unsubstantiated anecdotal support for editorial opinions is hack journalism.

Please name the owners who have objected to the Historic District Commission decisions and procedures and the properties involved or shut up.

If you want to back De Vito and the Anything Goes party candidates for city hall that is your decision to make.

But the highway approaches are the travelers' first impression of Eureka Springs and highway anywhere describes it.

What you and De Vito are calling for is more highway anywhere construction where the traffic is and so what for downtown.

Reread Alan Solomon's Chicago Tribune story about Eureka Springs and how he almost blew it off until he got downtown.

Of course the Chicago Tribune is a big Yankee daily and what the paper's travel reporter writes is just for millions of readers who never get their pictures on the back page.

What do they know about publishing!

[Becky Davis]

Well I suppose that there are court documents for those who braved to fight the Historic Commission. Like Molly McGuire with her ranch style modern home on Eureka St. who put in a pet door w/o their blessed permission.
I'm with James. Historic homes are the subject they should be concerned with. There should be a list of homes a hundred years or older or of great historical significance.
If Bill King is backing up a good statement James made...good for him.

[Royal Alcott]

Becky-

Bill King did not cite ANY instances in his editorial.

Had he done so it would have had some credibility.

He can praise anyone in his editorials if he has the facts and states them as such.

The arguments being made against the HDC have nothing to do with houses built in the 1960's and 1970's in the historic distict in close proximity to those dating from the 19th and early 20th centuries as is the case on Eureka Street.

I suggest you ask De Vito why he wants to limit the authority (given to the HDC by law) of the commission and why he wants no such controls on anything built on the highway.

Or you can ask Bill King to ask him.

[Kaye Miller]

Well, Royal you silver-tounged devil you, why don't you ask James???

And, by the way, did you ask Alan Solomon what his qualifications were???

[Royal Alcott]

Ms Miller-

I never ask questions when I already know the answers.

Alan Solomon stated his qualifications two ways in his story about Eureka Springs.

The first is a byline in the Chicago Tribune, a paper which I have know for many years as a reader and friend to editorial members as my father was.

Second, he stated his qualifications as a critic in the article which he gave me permission to quote from.

With the bank moving up to the highway and building plans for malls renting to many businesses where the traffic is and where parking can be easily found, you might ask DeVito when he will move his restaurant too.

62 is the front yard of Eureka Springs. I do not think anyone is going to plant flowers and cut the grass, do you?

They haven't cared what it looked like from one city limits sign to the other for 40 years.

[kukukachu]

Oh, great almighty expert on everything, and friend of everyone important, who are they? We idiots are a curious lot.

[Helen Jeffrey]

Royal never asks questions.

[Royal Alcott]

Kuku-

The May 16 issue of the Citizen has a picture of two of them on the front page. I'm sure these two know the rest. Their telephone number is in the book.

They are not important to me but maybe they are to you and Mss Miller and Jeffrey.

[kukukachu]

And these two are the ones that " haven't cared what it looked like from one city limits sign to the other for 40 years"? Hmmm.. interesting- and it's not important to you- that is why you brought it up?

[kukukachu]

He never answers questions, either.

[Becky Davis]

Royal doesn't give a hoot about the HDC. He disagrees with the newspaper giving James free promotion. Part of his..Get Devito campaign.
Of course, if it had been his candidate......

[Larry Williams]

Royal Alcott has been active in the Preservation Society for years and is serving on the current board. I think that demonstrates a bit of concern about the Historic District.

Royal understands a lot of things about the HDC. First among those is that the enabling legislation that allows Eureka Springs to collect its tourist tax is specifically based on the Historic District. National Historic District status requires a Historic District Commission and that it implement and follow the US Department of the Interior Guidelines for National Historic Districts. Bill King and Jim DeVito failed to look at these guidelines; that's too bad.

Eureka's economy is tied to its Historic District status. The designation of National Historic District requires following specific guidelines over which the City has no control. The day the Historic District goes away, and it can, Eureka no longer qualifies to collect the CAPC tax. Jim DeVito and Bill King need to do their homework. Perhaps they can find something in the Dept of Interior Guidelines that exempts contemporary structures but they'll have to get pretty creative. I assure you they'll have the Arkansas Historic Preservation Program (the State agency that oversees compliance with these guidelines) looking over their shoulders. Historic District status and Eureka's current economic base will be at risk.

Anyone who has specific complaints about the HDC not following the Department of the Interior Guidelines should speak up. Those who want to change the legislation that enables Eureka to collect the tourist tax should work with the State Legislature. Those who just want to complain about the way things are should just keep right on--it's nothing new but won't accomplish a damn thing.


[This message has been edited by Larry Williams (edited 06-02-2002).]

[Kaye Miller]

Is Royal as hateful and "holier than thou" at Preservation board meetings as he is on this board??

Want to explain again why the CAPC is necessary? (Don't be too sure there aren't people out there working on this.)

Congrats to KuKu and Helen - you may have made Royal's list!! (Sorry for leaving you off the list in the other thread P. Milam!)

I think if James wants to move his resturant to the highway it his business. I think the highway is looking pretty good. Look at Vintage Cargo, The Lumberyard, Something Simple, all the motels that are sprucing up (J. McClungs landscaping looks great - new pool at Candlewick), Mrs. Yoders cleaned up good. There ARE areas of "blight", but have you looked at the Historic District lately?? Are property owners getting tired of Big Brother?? Is it easier to just let the trash pile up and buildings deteriorate than fight city hall?? Or do we just call the blight in the historic district "yard art"??

Several people have been very vocal for many years about how unhappy they are about the buses, music, bikes (even cars) downtown. Why not take all of these out to the highway, board up the windows downtown and Eureka Springs can be "like I remember it"!!

Contrary to what some people believe, many first time visitors don't even know about the downtown historic district until we tell them about it.

[just wondering]

Councilperson James DeVito could care less about the retired folks in this town. Guess who are the big voters at election time? Many of the retire folks living on my street no longer shop here or BANK HERE. Wonder why?

[just wondering]

Becky Davis I still have 3 campaign Devito buttons from last election, need them? You can sell them maybe as antiques in Hot Springs or drop them off some high rise parking lot.

[S. Jones]

"Is Royal as hateful and "holier than thou" at Preservation board meetings as he is on this board??"

K I have been reading your posts and when I worked for Royal (fixed some stonework in his backyard) he was extremely nice and pleasant. Sure some of his posts are very outspoken and I don`t always agree, but he is entitled to his opinion. On the other hand I find most of your posts to be much more hateful. Where in his posts does he attack you? Seems to me that you follow his posts around just to attack him.

[Kaye Miller]

Royal is outspoken and entitled to his opinion.

S. Jones is outspoken and entitled to his opinion.

Guess it stops there.

[Becky Davis]

Royal clearly states he is hacked off at the newspaper for not citing instances and therefore not having credibility in their journalism. No matter how much experience with the HDC, the man has, I still say this is not really about that.
It is about James having his picture in the newspaper. As you know from several posts Royal has been upset with the TimesEcho when they happen to show a picture of a candidate he doesn't care for. But my goodness, to come right out and write and editorial. Right or wrong Royal?
J. W.,I did not support James in the last election so therefore have no use for your buttons. Since you have them I assume that you were a supporter. Perhaps Royal would like to have them to disasemble or use on a dart board.
Still, Larry said some interesting things on this board, Bill King. Any comments?
I am somewhat confused about the tax and the Historic Register. I have talked with several people on the Planning Commission here and they tell me there is no true historical district here as far as being on the National Register. There is an area of town called the Historic District but laws are not imposed on the homes there. However, there is still a tourism tax collected here for advertising and such as the CAPC. Larry, or Royal, is this not legal if we are not on the Historic Register or is it okay because HS is a National Park?


[This message has been edited by Becky Davis (edited 06-02-2002).]

[Larry Williams]

Becky,

Eureka Springs is indeed listed on the National Register of Historic Places and is designated a National Historic District. Years ago Louis Friend spearheaded the effort and Eureka Springs was designated a National Historic District. Eureka was one of the very first places to be named as such that wasn't a battlefield, cemetery or similar location. Being one of the first there are some unusual features like the fact that the designation included everything inside the entire City limits. Today such a designation would include boundaries that were more specific.

When the City wanted to collect the tourism tax it had to be as a result of an act of the Arkansas Legislature. They're not inclined to give blanket approval for such taxes and the specific legislation was written around the existence of the Historic District designation. The result is no Historic District, no authorization to collect the tax.

I'm not sure how I feel about the tax. It could be a good thing but I'm not all that happy about the way it's been used at times in the past. I, like many, am only peripherally involved in the tourism here and really haven't followed this as closely as I probably should have. Right now, though, many of the City services like the trolley and the Auditorium receive some funding from the tax. Things would undoubtedly change without the tax and I'm not sure about the extent of those changes. I do think loss of the tax would negatively impact a majority of businesses in town, I'm just not qualified to judge all of that impact.

[sweetness&light]

Larry,
Becky is currently residing in Hot Springs until I can convince her to come back here and run for mayor. I think she was referring to HS, not ES.

[Larry Williams]

Ahhh, Hot Springs is a National Park. Sorry, Becky.

But I should mention there are a lot of other benefits to being a historic district. Not the least of which are and have been grants to residential and commercial property owners for restoration or other work and lots of tax benefits. Even the recent work on the Auditorium was the result of a grant because of the Historic District. I wonder if many of the buildings in town would survive without Historic District designation.

I just hope James takes the time to research this all before he ever ends up in a position to change it as a result of over-simplification or a myopic agenda. Changes in the Historic District designation would likely be far reaching.

[Becky Davis]

Thanks Larry and Sweetness.

[James DeVito]

Larry I have spoken with the Arkansas Preservation Society, and much reserch has been done regarding our Historic status. I find contrary opinions to what you have expressed. Much latitude is granted to structures that are not ajacent or in the same areas as historic structures. My proposal would be to define what are considered historic structures and what are the protected areas. This would allow for less discretionary enforcement. I would opt for the Preservation Society and the HDC as well as for outside experts to determine which are the ones we should be protecting. If Thorncrown Chapel were proposed to be built in some beautiful setting within the Historic District, would it be denied because it wasn`t victorian?

[Kaye Miller]

Thank you James for your homework. What you want to do sounds sensible.

P.S. I am also grateful you didn't speak to the APS on a city cell phone!!

[Larry Williams]

Jim,

New construction in a historic district should be a product of its own time. Contrary to what some believe, there's no problem with new construction in a historic district. When you look at a building you should be able to tell its approximate date of origin. New construction should, however, blend with the district when it comes to scale, proportion, set back and similar features.

Victorian styles are in vogue now and there's no reason people should be forced to avoid them but they shouldn't be required either. Much of the value of a historic district like ours is that they're real living communities rather than some stagnant museum or fantasy land. Development in a historic district should done with respect to the historic structures and not be dominant features. So I would oppose building Thorncrown Chapel in the residential section of Spring Street.

Another example would be the almost rhythmic transition from public spaces to private space on the front of a house. Eureka is a bit unique in that this transition is dependent on topography. Still there is a progression from public to semi-public to private at the front of each old structure. In a residential neighborhood, when a chain link fence is added to the equation, suddenly there's a cold and abrupt change at the fence which visually impacts an entire block. A short picket or ornamental fence may not have the same negative effect.

I'm not saying newer areas like Hayes Circle should be treated the same as Spring Street. Those areas which are inside the historic district still need to go through the HDC by law. I'm not sure it's a bad thing because it does offer residents the opportunity to have a say in what's built next door. I wouldn't expect the HDC to apply the same strict adherence to guidelines in these newer areas as long as it doesn't present equal application of the law issues for the City Attorney.

The volunteer commissioners on the HDC are just trying to do they best they can and each proposal has to be considered individually. A complete, thoughtful and researched application and presentation goes a long way to avoiding misunderstandings. I think that's the biggest problem between the HDC and residents.

My main concern is that the HDC and its guidelines could become an election issue with all the rigid stands to go with that. I'm wondering if the Council members who have concerns have addressed them to the HDC or the City Administrator? Have you looked at the guide the City published about the HDC guidelines. There's an opportunity to discuss these kinds of issues at the end of each HDC meeting. Have any Council members with concerns done that? I'm sure the HDC Commissioners would appreciate the interest and input.

Complaining from a distance only undermines the volunteer efforts of the different commissions. If for some reason you have a problem dealing some member of the HDC or its Chairman, I would suggest you discuss your concerns with Butch Berry. As Chair of the Planning Commission with experience on the Historic District Commissions of Eureka and Little Rock, he could probably offer some insights into the regulations and problems faced by the HDC.

[oldguy]

Mr. Williams I don't know who you are but thank you. It always amazes me how someone buys a house in the HD then bitches about the HDC. The guidelines have been written for years. If you don't like water don't move to a lake. Someone said the HDC commissioners sit in judgment. Was that the same person that was proud of Molly M for her struggle for truth justice and a doggie door? So I gather she and Mr. Devito feel that the 3 houses across the street that collectively cost over $1,000,000 and the people who own or will own them should have no protection for their investment. Everyone wants the show places to bring in the bacon and in return the newer houses get to put in a chain link dog run and dog door. Mr. Devito maybe you can explain something. You want to have only houses of a certain age be protected if I read your post right. Who would buy an old house here, spend thousands of $ to buy and fix it up. Make it something the tourist would come here for, yet knowing the guy next door or across the street could do what they wanted if their house wasn't as old? Lets go to your business. Say you have been there a long time so now you are historic and controlled. Me I'm the new guy since I'm not Historic or controlled I think I'll put in a porn shop next to you. I'll put my biggest badest honker in my window next to your restaurant. I get to hang my sign next to your Eat at Devito's, mine just says Eat It. Do you feel that would be a problem? That is basically what you want to do to the historic dist. Is it because after 20 years of living here you bought a house in the HD on Spring Street and you don't want to be bothered.
The other question about Thorncrown Wouldn't that depend on the location? I know they built a VICA house on Wall street. It sure is not Victorian. Is the new convention center Victorian? The Vintage Cargo and Lumberyard bar? They were all done through the HDC. and EVERYONE of them has added value to the area.
FYI Mr williams Eureka springs does NOT have a City Administrator. We have an Administrative Assistant to the Mayor, which is totally different.

[S. Jones]

Changing the building codes in town sound to me like a ploy for a backdoor to building a parking garage.

[Becky Davis]

Nope Oldguy it wasn't the same person. Do your glasses need to be cleaned?

[sweetness&light]

Oh, how nice; a new kind of shop in town instead of another t-shirt or souvenier store. Oldguy is going to sell geese next door to DeVito's and hang a big gander in the window. There for a minute I was afraid he was going to put in a porn shop, but honkers are much nicer. Maybe it could be a fowl shop with ducks, too, and you could hang a big quacker in the window along with the big honker.

If they weren't on the endangered list, I suppose you could also hand a big screamer in the window...bald eagle. Now here's a great idea and they certainly aren't on the endangered species list: you could hang a variety of whiners....please!

[oldguy]

Becky Davis Thank you for the correction I cleaned my glasses but now my honker is only a honk. I hate that. Right down in the corner is a little sign. I should have read it first, it says "Items seen through here appear larger than they are"

[snowdiva]

Oldguy, you are one smart oldguy.........I love that part...if you don't want to live by the water, don't move to the lake.....LOL