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Lucinda
10-13-2003, 08:00 AM
“It’s unfortunate the council made the mayor feel she was unable to bring germane information to the table,” Ott said. “I would hope the council would not give the mayor that feeling and that the mayor would take the initiative to present information that is germane.”
One alderman attacked the mayor at a recent meeting for commenting on a topic before council, saying the mayor’s role was to direct the meeting, not comment. Since then, the mayor has had little to say at the council table.

Bill King, again you editorialize under the guise of news. Again, you spin a story to meet your own agenda. Bill Ott was simply PANDERING to the Mayor in his little speech also.

Penny Carroll never attacked the mayor at the council table. I was there and so were you. Instead, Carroll quoted Roberts Rules of Order informing the Mayor she was out of line by offering her own personal opinion during a council discussion. If that silenced the Mayor and kept her from bringing "germane" INFORMATION to the table - then it's the Mayor who is at fault, not the councilwoman.

Read Roberts Rules, again, Bill. Carroll was 100% correct in her statement.

You report these council meetings with your own private spin on things - as an attack on any council person who does not agree with you or with the Mayors agenda.

BILL, you were once on the council - I suggest, if you are so interested in control, you run for election next time.

not here on vacation
10-13-2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Lucinda:
if you are so interested in control, you run for election next time.

you insinuate people who run for office have control issues? hm

Lucinda
10-13-2003, 09:51 AM
No, that's not my intention. I insinuate Bill King has control issues.

As the editor, he has a choice between reporting the news fairly and accurately or reporting in such a way as to further his own agendas.

If he wants to be a policy-maker, he should run for an office.

U.D.Cide
10-13-2003, 10:41 PM
I have known Bill King for more then 20 years. Lucy what you say is just plain sour grapes. Get over yourself, and use more discretion with whom you so quickly jump into bed with. How many years have you lived here? You seem to, so sanctimoniously, know what all our ills are without a true grasp of our recent history. You worked to get Cathy elected, now you relentlessly rip away at her. You worked for the Citizen, Likewise. If I where James I would be concerned over the public ridicule that awaited me the moment I disappoint you as well.

oldwizard
10-13-2003, 11:08 PM
U. D. Cide,

If James lies to her and/or destroys lives around him with other lies, or when asked for an unbiased opinion tells her only the extreme right or left of the thing I would expect him to be concerned as well.

However no better than I know James or Cindy I find your concern wasted. People of honor tend to stay honorable.

Are you sure you have never been mayor?


------------------
Glenn Strange

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." Ayn Rand

U.D.Cide
10-13-2003, 11:49 PM
Glen, I have had personal differences with Bill, Beau, Cathy, James as well as you, but I have stood in defense of every one of you at one time or another. You talk of honor, but I have stood witness to improper conversations which you where a part of, in clear violation of FOI law. I even commented on it at the time, and the discussion quickly dissipated. We are all human, and I believe we all care deeply for this community. Not everybody here depends on tourism to remain here. These people are as equally constituents as anybody else.
NO person is wholly honorable! NO person is wholly evil. But to relentlessly hammer away at those we disagree with, only shows the world our own shortcomings. I agree with you on national politics, probably 95%, but on a local level, you are so full of hurt and anger, your disagreements prevent you from seeing ANY good in those that offend you.
I will continue to respect you, but I respect those you detest as well.

Lany Ballance
10-14-2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by U.D.Cide:
. . . Get over yourself, and use more discretion with whom you so quickly jump into bed . . .

Wiser words were never spoken. No matter to whom they are spoken.

[This message has been edited by Lany Ballance (edited 10-14-2003).]

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 05:59 AM
You have as much right to your opinion as I have to mine. Fortunately, we both have the the freedom to state our opinions whenever we wish.

Disappointment is exactly the right word to describe my feelings about Bill King. I happen to think he has a job that is far more important to this town than any elected position or private enterprise. When I worked for Bill I thought he took the responsibilities of his position very seriously and that he held himself to even higher standards than my own expectations. Now, he appears to have been politically co-opted and the expense of everything else. The net result is, everyone is denied unbiased reporting. It disappoints me deeply.

Bill has a newspaper at his disposal. I only have this forum and the spoken word. When Bill or MJ reports something I know to be either wrong or politically slanted for personal purpose, I’ll speak out.

I do find the term “jumping into bed” somewhat offensive. The phrase implies trading support for favors. I had nothing to gain personally or financially from supporting Kathy Harrison and asked for nothing in return. Lesson learned on this one – I’ll never again work for a candidate whose character I know so little about. Disappointed – I think I’d have to respect Kathy to be disappointed by her. To date, she’s shown me little I can respect.

Of course not all people who live here rely upon tourism to sustain them. However, most do – and that is the job of elected officials – to protect the interests of the majority while also serving the minority. If you think that is how this city government is functioning – you should look a little closer.

You combine political and personal issues in your critique of me. My relationship with James is personal and has no place in any of these discussions. Mixing my private life into your post about my politics is a cheap shot and has nothing to do with either subject.

gayle
10-14-2003, 07:26 AM
Lucinda,
Seems to me you have been taking great liberty with those cheap shots yourself. I've been following these threads and I'm disgusted with the level some folks have stooped to including yourself. ( I believe something about a gun and bullets sent would illustrate this hmmm?) Why don't we start talking about YOUR hidden agenda here? For someone who has lived in Eureka Springs a mere 2 1/2 years you seem to have a wealth of knowledge of how things ought to be done here. Why is it the newcomers always feel the need to tell the long-time residents just how WRONG they have been doing things all this time?
As far as MJ is concerned...she has no hidden agendas that I know of....her desire to become FULL TIME as city clerk is not a secret....and not a crime either!! She is entitled to want the job. Maybe she's just plain tired of reporting the news fairly only to be belittled by people like you.
It's time to get a life of your own Lucinda, and let James do his own politcking.

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 08:05 AM
Gayle, I’m very curious why long time residents assume only they are entitled to opinions – as if the intellect doesn’t fully develop until one’s spent centuries here.

The average tourist is capable of identifing some of this town’s serious problems after having spent a single day here.

Living and breathing a decade in Eureka may give you insight I may never have, but that doesn’t mean I’ll just sit by, silently and accept anything handed to me. I live here too, and that is something you cannot minimize.

My hidden agenda: I’ve invested a considerable percentage of what little savings I have in property and a business here. The economic welfare of this town is critical to me and my investment, combined with my residency, makes every action of the mayor, council, CAPC, commissions, and Chamber very personal. I’d like to find my investment worth at least what I’ve initially put into it five years down the road. I’d like to have something left over to leave my children someday.

I have a life of my own - it’s obviously one you know nothing of. And if I were looking to win some type of popularity contest, I'd simply keep my opinions to myself. Silence seems the safest way to co-exist in Eureka, but playing it safe and hoping for the best is not particularly impressive to me.

Glad to read that feminism is alive and well in Eureka.

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 08:33 AM
Hmmm - I went back and read one of your posts, Gayle, to find you don't even live here.

Using your own logic:

You call Eureka your "home away from home" instead of actually residing here. What happens in this town does not really affect you. Therefore, your geographic detachment gives you even less of a right to comment on my criticism of Eureka politics and press than you give me as a “short term” resident.

Among the ways we differ: I feel you should have the freedom to express your opinion here or anywhere – the same freedom you'd apparently deny me, if you could.

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 08:36 AM
[This message has been edited by Lucinda (edited 10-14-2003).]

Kim Yonkee
10-14-2003, 08:42 AM
A point that apparently needs to be cleared up, from an email I just received.

This is Leafhead Gayle, not Alderperson Gayle. http://www.geekfest.com/ubb/smile.gif

B. Hendrix
10-14-2003, 08:49 AM
Lucinda,

There are many people who agree with your assesment of the poor quality of reporting done by both papers. Journalistic ethics seems to be a foreign concept to them.

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 08:49 AM
Oh, this is the Gayle that doesn't even live in this country - got it. I knew she wasn't Gayle Money.

Again, your residency, in my opinion, is not a prerequisite for your participation here. You are welcome to your opinion. But, I'd appreciate it if you'd not attempt to silence me in the process.

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 09:10 AM
Thanks for the support B.

I keep hoping that with enough comment, both editors will reassess their recent practices. I don’t expect them to trash those I consider the opposition – I just want unbiased reporting. We have to be able to rely upon the press – they aren’t multi-national news and media conglomerates, they are their own masters. They should answer to the needs of their readers, not interject their own opinions into the news – that is what editorials are for.

blondeee
10-14-2003, 09:15 AM
whom

Joe Zickmund
10-14-2003, 09:34 AM
The adgenda for the city council has been published by the Citizen for last two weeks. Is the city paying for this replication of effort?

Lucinda, do you remember Kathy Harrison making a comment about Ed Leswig being a newcomer? Referring to someone as a "newcomer" only further alienates the community. I remember a prominent individual of our community quoted in a state newspaper stating, "the reason we are a city of strife is because we are afflicted with newcommeritis." I don't have a banking relationship with that financial institution anymore.

Someday come by and visit and I will tell you about my blender theory.

Joe Zickmund
10-14-2003, 09:36 AM
Agenda

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 09:52 AM
Joe,

The way I understand this is: the Citizen is not accredited, therefore the city has no legal ability to post city notices there, nor does the paper have the right to accept them - UNLESS they are also posted in the Times Echo - which I'm sure they are. Which makes posting in both papers an expensive option that is not legally necessary. There isn’t even a moral obligation to post in both.

I wonder why MJ is silent about this.

I don’t think the city council is fully aware of, or has approved the expense and duplication. If they are not, by posting city notices in the Citizen, Kathy Harrison is in effect paying Bill King for his biased support - and she's using public funds to do so. At a time there is only $87 left in the general fund.

Given the papers favorable handling of everything that comes out of Lindblad, Umland and Otts mouth, if they are aware of this duplication of expense, then their involvement or lack thereof is suspect also. They should be the first 3 to investigate this.

Cris Dunnam
10-14-2003, 09:55 AM
The whole newcomer/old timer argument is a very slippery slope. Everyone who lives here, does business here and/or has children here should be encouraged to participate in the advancement and betterment of our city.

It is a very short list of family names that could be considered actual locals in the strictest sense. Some of these family names are very much represented in business leadership, but few, if any, in city government.

I've lived here over 24 years. I do sometimes fight the urge to think or say "Who the heck do these newcomers think they are?" et cetera.
But then I think about two things:

A) There's bound to be people here who've been here 25+ years who will say the same of me; and

B) I lived for a short time in an area of the extreme South where this type of elitism has grown beyond rational proportion. To the point where the local politics were corrupt well past what we perceive Eureka Springs' to be. I would never wish that social order on our beautiful city.

Always remember two things: Everybody’s from somewhere; and, No matter where you go, there you are.

Heretic
10-14-2003, 09:56 AM
Thank you, Blondee.

Lucinda
10-14-2003, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Cris Dunnam:

Always remember two things: Everybody’s from somewhere; and, No matter where you go, there you are.

And no matter who you are, you came from the same place and will end up as equals: the womb, and dust.

becauseican
10-14-2003, 10:20 AM
why is it that during the council meeting last night kathy was constantly turning to bill king for his advice!

Joe Zickmund
10-14-2003, 11:15 AM
becauseican, maybe Beau wasn't there.